Mothers got wrong advice (The Sunday Times)

[tinawykes]

I am very upset. My daughter was born in March 2005 and I was asked by the health visitor to introduce formula when she was 3 or 4 days old. I was told that she had lost too much weight and that she was getting insufficient nutrition from me. I reluctantly introduced the bottle but my baby was unable to cope with teat and breast (nipple confusion) and soon after I was forced to stop breast feeding. I was adamant that she got as much breast milk as possible and after much heartbreak and confusion (first baby, not knowing what I was doing) I started expressing instead. I expressed for 11 months (till I retuned to work) and found it very difficult.

The Sunday Times (23 April 2006) has reported that the advice given to mothers may have been wrong and this has made me very angry. It has brought back all the tears and heartache that I went through when Riya was not feeding (unable to suck form both breast and bottle) and my production was insufficient (she stopped sucking and though I started expressing a few days later my production has slowed and could not be reactivated). It angers me to think that all the pain and agony may have been avoidable in the first place.

I do not know what I am hoping to achieve by finding other mothers who have been through a similar ordeal but just now I just want to find and shoot the health visitor.

My baby is a perfect one year old, breast and formula fed initially but now on whole milk. We are doing fine, the report just touched a few raw nerves.

Regards

Tina

I'm so sorry you're feeling so bad about this.

I was preassurised into giving formula to my now 11mo ds on day 3. He ended up refusing my breast. After 4 weeks of hard slog and lots of MN help we managed to drop the formula and get back to exclusive bf, but those weeks were very difficult and I know how hard it is if you'd been set on excl bf.

A huge WELL DONE :) for being so determined, trying all you could and above all for expressing for so long! You've done absolutely brilliantly. Be proud of yourself and your beautiful dd. :)

I too am very disappointed at the misinformation and lack of support I experienced and hope to help other mothers in similar situations in future.

doh pressurised

Tina, that's so sad.

Your experience had nothing to do with the charts, though, and everything to do with poor breastfeeding support and information. Charts of whatever type would not have helped at 4 days postnatal....that's the time you should have had someone helping you to fix the breastfeeding (why were you not seeing a midwife then? It's unusual to see a health visitor at 4 days).

It's fantastic you expressed for 11 months (wow!) and your baby will have benefitted hugely from this.

Your baby may well have lost a lot of weight in the first four days, and action might well have been needed - but the first option would always be/should always be to help the breastfeeding be more effective and while this was being worked on (by improving the baby's latch, by skin to skin contact, and other means) you should have been supported to express either by hand or with an effective pump, at least 8 times a day.

You will find there are many mums on mumsnet who have been let down by poor bf support.....but in this case, it was not the charts at fault.

Saw this on the news last night, it is distressing because I was highlighted as having problems by the midwife. My ds hadn't put on enough weight 'according to the charts'. Took a little while to begin to feed while we were in hospital.

Do you know what the midwife recommended I do, to increase my milk supply. Increase my own calories by drinking this weight gain - milkshake drinks you can get. The midwife had never breastfed her own children.

I continued however, to bf and was pressured into giving formula by the surgery. I continued to do both though.

I have now changed surgerys and will refuse to be bullied by the next set of midwifes that I have.

I understand how you feel and feel angry as well.

tiktok, my midwife tried to insist I give DS1 formula because he lost a lot of weight. Being a stubborn, I refused and we both got the hang of it and never looked back. This was a nice, apparently knowledable senior midwife too. Looking back, it was awful - she didn't try to help me feed at all.

It took my second dd 3 months to gain here birth weight back. In the end I had the HV and doctor visiting daily, to weigh her.

Fortunately it was my second baby and my HV and doctor where very supportive.

However looking back it was still a nightmare as she cried non-stop day and night, and trying to cope with my first dd. It can take some years to come to terms with the imperfections of the situations.

Patttsy x

Awful for you Tina, the only thing I can suggest is that you write to the Health Authority to complain about the wrong advice you were given and the lack of proper, informed support for bf in your area.

If every woman in the country who was not properly supported when trying to breastfeeding, complained about it a) there would be a shortage of paper and b) someone in power might decide to do something about it.

Though probably not.

I get the ST - and I nearly sobbed when I read this yesterday morning - brings back all the anguish etc.

I also was 'forced' to move dd1 to ff when it took ages to get back to her birthweight and then started losing weight etc - still feel guilty esp as she is a bit 'solid' IYKWIM at 19 months- but doesn't eat any crap so I blame ff - probably wrong but it is how I feel. Combination of crap HV (who has now retired) and obsession with the charts.

However, I got myself gemmed up by attending La Leche meetings and having a fab counsellor who has come around and helped me with positioning etc.

DD2 is now nearly 11 weeks and exclusively bf - I am sooo proud of myself - but still feel guilty re dd1.

I had HUGE issues with positioning ehem I was in hospwith DS but really wanted to bf. When I got home still wasn't 100% with getting latch correct but when did work DS would feed for 30mins or so and seemed quite happy. After 3.5 weeks however HV went nuts at me and said "your DS is obv not getting proper nutrition from you he is constantly losing weight (had slowed at this point and felt things were starting to get better - had cracked positioning and was much more confident with bf'ing - but being a nervous 1st time mum had no idea about centiles and like you I was bullied into ff'ing by HV.

I have decided when 2nd baby born will try to bf again and am not listening to HV or MW but going with my own instincts. Also if I do end up ffing I won't give myself such a hard time over it as I did before but rather enjoy the time with baby when he/she is really tiny!

expressing for 11 months?!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so impressed - your DD is one lucky girl to have such a hardworking mama

The first few weeks with my first child were completely spoilt by the poor information and pressure I received from my HV. Although he didn't lose weight, he wasn't gaining as fast as the HV wanted (he gained 2oz per week, she wanted 4oz). She timed me feeding him (10 minutes on each side) and did a test weight, whereby he was weighed, I fed him and then he was weighed again. He was .5oz lighter on the second weigh - something not right with the scales perhaps?

Eventually, I was sent to paediatric A&E in such a way that I felt he must be at deaths door. He was observed for 4 hours before we were sent home with 6 bottles from maternity and strict instructions that the breastfeeding was over. The formula was to tide us through the night until I could buy bottles and formula the next day. If he still continued to put weight on slowly they would do some investigations. Why couldn't they investigate while I was still breastfeeding?

Anyway, my son was 8 weeks by then. We sat in bed that night and I fed him for the last time. I then passed him over to DH who gave him a bottle of formula. I was not told to drop feeds gradually, I was just told that breastfeeding was over. Thank god the baby had other ideas as I would have ended up engorged etc.

DS decided to refuse any more bottles. I tried everything, even slipping it into my bra and then putting it into his mouth instead of my breast. He screamed the place down and I felt a double failure. No only could I not breastfeed, I couldn't bottlefeed either. I really think this could have led me to postnatal depression.

I eventually realised I would have to continue breastfeeding as he was not going to take the bottle. I had the HV coming to my house to weight him and for a 2 week spell he was weight every day except Sunday.

Even now, with my 3rd child the HV managed to reduce me to tears. I took Joel to get weighed because I wanted to find out how heavy he was before I started weaning him. She was shocked to discover that he hadn't had any solids and was just about to turn 6 months old. I was told in no uncertain terms to start getting solids into him. And yet again, I was told he was far too small and something had to be done. Perhaps they should look at dh and me. I'm 5'2" and dh is 5'7 - we're not going to have big babies. DS3 is the right weight for him. I hope HV take note of this article, I might even send my HV a copy.

Mandy.

I think all new mothers should be asked to contact breastfeeding counsellors for advice rather than health visitors. I received similarly duff advice from mine "you can't possibly have enough milk for a 5 month old you need to give him formula and solids straight away". I emailed advisors at La Leche and ABM for 2nd and 3rd opinions and got the helpful supportive information I needed.

It all makes me v. cross. On the news it said "WHO is recommending the graphs are changed" and "the government is considering whether or not to adopt the recommendations. What is there to consider about it ?

I have a friend with a baby who was told only yesterday that her baby had lost too much weight (baby is less than a week old) as she is still very sleepy and not wanting to feed much so to mix and match with breast and top up feed with bottle. She was so upset as she thought she was doing so well with the bf and has lost all her confidence now. I think she feels that she isn’t doing it "right" or that her milk isn’t "good enough" - blaming her diet etc etc If her baby finds it much easier to use the bottle with faster flow etc and rejects her bf altogether she will be devastated. So annoying and frustrating as I know she thinks so highly of her mw and would never want to challenge her - she is the expert etc etc

sorry you got rubbish 'advice' tinawykes - but wanted to say well done for the expressing xxx

It makes me furious when I read stories like that BagelBird.

Medical professionals undermining breastfeeding by lack of training and knowlege.

Can you put your friend on to the NCT or la Leche? Or even here? It's so gobsmacking when you're a new mother to be told that your MW or HV knows nothing about BF, because naturally, you expect them to - you do think they're the experts. If only more new mothers understood exactly what a dearth of knowledge there is in the NHS about bf, they wouldn't be so vulnerable to this crap advice.

Bagelbird - see if your friend will be happy to contact one of the bf helplines and talk it over.

Without more info, I can't really comment. If a baby aged a week is really desperately underweight, then formula may be necessary as a last resort - alongside improving the breastfeeding so it works better. I have to say, though, that this second bit of the approach is often ignored. Mothers may lose confidence in bf very quickly, too, as you say.

To have got to a week with the breastfeeding problem unnoticed is also a very bad sign of the 'help' she has had so far. Sleepy, ineffectively feeding babies conserve calories by not 'asking' for feeds, but this doesn't suddenly happen on day 7. It's a progressive thing - I bet this baby has never fed well, and the mum has been told to 'persevere' or 'keep trying' without any real help.

None of this has anything at all to do with her diet. The baby is too sleepy to feed well or often enough - and that's why things have gone pear-shaped.

If she will be upset not to be able to breastfeed, then you do need to tell her of other people to talk to - today. Tomorrow may be too late for her to build up the confidence to do it. Also, at this stage, her bf can be fixed more easily....time is of the essence.

I really struggled with breast feeding. My gut feeling was that dd wasn't getting any milk and was hungry but it was all so new to me I didn't trust my instincts. I told the midwife that dd cried almost constantly and instead of helping me to sort out the breast feeding she told me I had to get strict with her and described CC. She was 3 days old. I was beside myself and she was on bottles by the time she was 5 days old.

Mandy, so sorry to hear about your nightmare experience with your HV. As a mum of a dinky doo, I was pressured to put dd on formula/bottles, even prescribed Infratrini, a fortified formula. I was a first time mum and very intimidated by the HV and other health professionals. They insisted I "persevere" even though dd spent her afternoons screaming her lungs out whilst I starved her to get her on Infatrini/bottles. If dd was not so resolute in her rejection of bottles (she's stubborn), I am sure I would have had to give up breastfeeding. As it is, I dismissed all of them at 4 months and went back to exclusive breastfeeding. Life was so much better after that.

All I can say for my impending arrival is NEVER AGAIN. The idea of an HV covering her arse and ticking boxes is just stupid.

Just to clarify - it's not the weight itself that's an issue at this stage, but dehydration. Babies who have lost a lot of weight and who are continuing to lose are at serious risk of this....the weight is a sign of it, rather than a cause for concern in itself.

tw can understand why you are so cross and sad.
Must give you a hugecheer for expressing for 11 months.
Unbelievably heroic effort.
What a woman!!

I had problems with ds - he was VERY sleepy and just wouldn't feed properly - he was a very big baby, and didn't feed for nearly 48 hours. Even then he didn't really feed enough to stimulate the milk supply - I was given advice ranging from 'you only need to feed them every 8-10 hours' to 'feed every hour for 3/4 hour each time'.

I did end up topping him up with formula, which I regret (and didn't need to with dd, so it obviously wasn't my milk that was the problem) - he took 3 months to regain his birth weight, having lost 18 oz in weight.

Things I found helpful in getting him to feed a bit more were taking all his clothes off when he fell asleep (literally after a few sucks), then putting him on the cold changing mat, and finally splashing him with cold water. I also used to keep switching sides so that he was getting slightly more 'readly available' milk to keep him awake - would do this so he fed 3 or 4 times off each side (this from the La Leche League breastfeeding book).

I do remember that feeling of crying every time he was weighed, and I'm sorry tinawykes that you had such a sad experience, but I'm amazingly impressed that you expresesd for 11 months! I managed to mix feed ds till he was just over a year, but there is NO way I could have expressed for that length of time - what a fantastic achievement for you.

Does anybody have a link to the original article? I would like to write a letter to the ST pointing out the shocking ignorance of BF in the medical professional. It ought to be such a scandal and such a priority.

Hmmm,I can't find it,despite trawling through online version.
Would like to see it too if anyone is a better hunter than me.

I think it might be the link in \link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?reverse=1&topicid=1364&threadid=166745&rnd=4306870431224446\this thread}