Advised by HV to wean 7mo off breast...?

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I've put this on the Weaning board but I seem to be getting advice on sleeping which, although gratefully received, is not really what I'm after, so I thought maybe you lot would know.

In order to improve my 7mo DS's awful sleep, my HV has advised really trying to push his solids intake (which in itself made me ) as he's 'obviously hungry' since he feeds every 1.5 to 2 hours day and night. Since he's a spoon refuser and more interested in playing with finger foods, although is getting more interested, and more able to swallow significant quantities of textured foods. To make him 'more interested' in solids, she has advised the following:

• cut breastfeeds to morning and evening only
• cut all night feeds, using CC if necessary.

I did tell her that my understanding was that the majority of nutrition needs to come from milk until 12 months, but she said that their guidance is that solids need to be taking over from seven months.

Is anyone else familiar with the HV's guidance or where it has come from? The approach she has suggested seems awfully extreme to me on so many levels...(more than a bit of a shock to DS, risk of mastitis for me etc)

TIA!

Thanks shouldIbecross

I think I will take the 'reduce BF feeding frequency slightly to encourage solids intake' approach on the chance it does help to space his night feeds and then, as you say, do some sleep training if he doesn't.

I do think it's completely an inability to self settle between sleep cycles, hence I'm not convinced the solids are going to make a jot of difference. The HV was convinced (although I tried to express my disagreement) that he wakes every couple of hours throughout the night and then will only feed back to sleep because he's hungry. I think she's looking at the boob as a nutrition-only thing personally. She's not acknowledging its magical baby-soothing properties at all.

Yes, his room's dark, but since he's taken an age to get to sleep this time around, I've decamped with him into the spare bedroom and we'll co-sleep now til morning. Hey ho. I love waking up getting my hair pulled...really I do...

Oh, and apparently if I 'give in' and give him any more than three BFs a day, it'll be 'baby one - mum nil' (her words) and he'll become even more adamant about not taking solids.

Weaning's competitive, it would seem...

(And he's not completely disinterested BTW. He'll take a little bit more each week and is becoming more interested in cutlery. Silly me, thinking that's how it was supposed to work...)

You don't need to reduce breastfeeds! Logic would dictate that reducing milk would increase solid intakes but there's no evidence to back this up.

Babies increase their calorie intake as they grow- once they start solid food, the amount of milk they take in stays the same and they just add solid food to increase the amount of food overall that they are getting. SOrry, I am clumsy at explaining it but there's a really good article with some graphs here.

There's also this guidance from the WHO (bit long but a good read if you have the time).

Sorry that you are struggling with sleep :( A lot of babies still night-feed at this age so it's within the range of normal. Don't know how comforting that will be to you! There's some really good information about sleep here.

Also sorry that your HV is so misinformed and unsupportive. If you have time, do let the GP clinic or wherever the HV is based know about your experiences. THe comments she has made have been awful :(

Thanks EauRouge. That's exactly what I was after. I didn't have to read very far into that WHO document to see 'maintain frequent breastfeeding' written repeatedly and on page 21, 'A meal frequency that is greater than necessary may lead to excessive displacement of breastmilk.'

I think I'll contact the BFN workers that work along side that health visiting team on Monday for a 'second opinion' and perhaps they'll have words...

Thanks again everyone. Glad to know my instinct and albeit limited knowledge on the subject wasn't completely off-course!

'baby one - mum nil'

Because everyone knows raising children is akin to a world war

I personally think some of the posters on here are being a bit hardline. I don't think it is necessary to have sleep which is disrupted to the extent you describe. Teaching the baby to self settle is a good thing, but as you said, you won't self settle if he is hungry. Ergo he needs something else, and it may be that he needs more calories in the form of solids, so that he can sleep for longer cycles. There is nothing wrong with a baby over six months taking solids is there? Some posters on here seem to think solids are inconsequential, but the aim is to gradually get him to eat substances other than milk by the time he is one, isn't it?

You want his sleep patterns to improve, you have admitted as much; so there is obviously something to be gained by tweaking the feeding arrangements, before you try and tackle the sleeping pattern, just in case he IS hungry. Well he may not be hungry as such, but just need that many feeds to offer to same calories. So, you want him to take less feeds, ergo you have to offer some other calories. Some babies may have entrenched sleeping patterns that aren't changed by feeding differently, others may well be hungry and need the extra feeds. I don't think you need to get too tied in knots by this. As with all HV advice, there is a grain of truth. Personally I have never tried controlled crying, and I think it is terrible to have to resort to that when you are broken by sleepless nights, without trying something a bit less drastic first.

You also have to realise that there are some people who feed their babies so much stodge, especially jars/packet cereals that there is no room left in baby's tummy for milk, possibly in a misguided belief that it is better for babies to have "proper food" rather than bm or formulamilk over a certain age, and the NHS guidelines will obviously reflect this problem. There are people who think you are MEANT to wean babies off milk at 6 months that is why the health professionals keep plugging the milk is important up to a year. In your case, the HV possibly thought you had veered to much in the other direction, albeit for all the right reason.

But I agree she sounds totally patronising, and that sort of advice would have had my hackles up in a instant.

The WHO document will also reflect the problems faced in developing countries where mothers will not have access to formula, and where maintaining breastfeeding (through frequent feeds) is vital if the baby is to have ANY milk/optimum nutrition.

my rubbish new health visitor said the same thing to me. but its completely different advise to what my last health visitor said to do with my pfb 2 years ago. so I've decided to ignore her and just do the same as i was told to do for ds 1. 5 milk feeds and 3 solids.

The WHO guidelines are global. Did you take a look at the other article I posted?

No one said there is anything wrong with a baby over 6 months taking solids- a baby over 6 months needs solid food. But reducing milk feeds to try and get a baby to eat more solid food is not a good idea- the other link I posted explains why!

Elpha will PM you some info on sleep that may be useful. Sorry it's not improved. We've had a horrendous few weeks but are hopefully getting back on track.

Solids has made bugger all difference sleep wise. If anything has made things worse, as he's waking with digestion issues I think He started eating much more at 7.5-8 months which seems to be pretty standard. Have you tried sharing a spoon & bowl? DS will only eat from my spoon or fork, otherwise it's BLW.

DS has a pretty good appetite & I boob him constantly during the day, stuffing him with as much milk as poss. If anything he's taking more milk now as he's so active. It's far more calorific & I just couldn't get that about if food into him tbh.

Your HV sounds rubbish unfortunately - why are they so crap?!

Just phoned the Breastfeeding Network service locally. Lovely lady on the phone oscillated between gasping in horror and laughing out loud at the HV's advice, then proceeded to give me some excellent recommendations of her own. She works with that HV, so I suspect words may be had...

Part of me wishes I'd just phoned them first, but at least I've now got my very own 'Crazy Shit HVs Have Said' to add to the very long list you find here on MN!

swanthing - have you thought that maybe Elphaba wants her DS's sleep to improve because that's what she's been led to believe is normal?

It's really not normal (as in universal - of course it's normal in terms of biologically possible)/usual for a 7month old baby to sleep through the night - or even longer than 3 or 4 hours at a time.

Add in growth spurts and being poorly, and sometimes you can have feeds that go on all night (yes, thanks DD, i'm not knackered today, honest )

I think there are far too many "my DC slept through the night from 11-7 at 6 weeks". It's not all that usual.

and it might be that he's not really hungry every time - babies are biologically designed to suckle for comfort as well as food and drink.
that's not a bad thing, it's a goooood thing.

Don't worry nickelbaby - I have absolutely no socially-driven misconceptions that DS should 'sleep through the night' at 7 months. I wouldn't mind four unbroken hours, though, five if I'm being really cheeky, mainly so I don't get the sack when I go back to work for sleep-deprivation induced incompetence. Once every few months he'll tease me with four hours, little scamp.

I argued that particular point with someone the other day, actually, who tried the old baby rice/rusk-in-a-bottle recommendation with me because, (and I quote) 'babies obviously need to feel full.' No, says I, parents want to load them up so they can get more sleep. No 'need' on baby's part there.

it is easy.
i went back to work at 4 weeks (with DD i'm glad to say), and we co-sleep.
so although some nights are very very unbroken, it's easy to drop straight off again.
i know it's not a solution for everyone but it's saved my sanity.
or go to bed at 7

even if I give DD stodgy food, she's still hungry/thirsty within an hour or two! thankfully now she's on solids, i can throw normal food at her, but sometimes boob is all she wants.