At wits end with BFing newborn...gave two bottles in the night and now not sure what to do.

[DangerMousey]

Just that really. I have been trying to BF my 9 day old newborn but have been finding it very hard. I have a cracked nipple which bleeds, and he has been cluster feeding at night between 11pm and 5am which means I cannot go to bed at all. I have not had more than about 3.5 hours sleep in any 24 hour period since I went into labour. And never more than 1 hour at a time. I am exhausted and at my wits end.

So tonight I gave him a bottle of 90ml formula at 0030, and then one again at 0415...he has pretty much slept through since each feed.

I am now sat up in my living room agonising about what to do when he next needs a feed, I am guessing at around 8am.

I am sorely tempted to just abandon BFing altogether. He looked so much happier when he was contentedly taking the bottle, rather than fighting with the breast. I also was not sat there crying about the nipple pain (or with my eyes rolling back in my head in exhaustion).

If I decide to go onto bottles, what will happen to my breasts, and the milk I have in them? Do I need to express off a little bit every few hours to stop them becoming engorged?

Or is it possible to continue BFing during the day, and to give a bottle or two at night?

Please don't flame me for this, or tell me about the significant health benefits of BFing: I am well aware of the choice I am making here, and all the facts. I was really keen to BF before I gave birth but I just don't think I can do this any more.

The first few weeks are the hardest, you are so nearly there! If you want to continue to bf then call la leche league and get someone to come and help you with the latch which will bring almost instant relief. You are so early in the journey, and your milk supply is still getting established, in my opinion if you start mixed feeding now then it will mean more and more ff top ups. Have you tried cosleeping? Follow the safety rules and your baby can suckle all night whilst you doze.

The first few weeks are the hardest, you are so nearly there! If you want to continue to bf then call la leche league and get someone to come and help you with the latch which will bring almost instant relief. You are so early in the journey, and your milk supply is still getting established, in my opinion if you start mixed feeding now then it will mean more and more ff top ups. Have you tried cosleeping? Follow the safety rules and your baby can suckle all night whilst you doze.

Hi Dangermousey nice to "see"you again, if under not so nice circs. My DS was 5wo yesterday.

The first 4-6wks are essential for establishing supply, particularly night feeds. If you try to stop night feeds at this point, it will definitely impact on day time feeding.

As I said, DS was 5wo yesterday, & its only in the last few days that he has started going 3-4hrs at night, & feeding quicker too, so I'm getting a bit more sleep. I have been surviving on about 3hrs sleep a night since November!!

My suggestions for your situation;

1. don't make any decisions in anger/at night - have a think during the day
2. get through 1 feed at a time, don't make any long term plans/decisions
3. agree you should also contact LLL or NCT (both have 24hr helplines) &/or get yourself to a group to get advice on your latch
4. use nipple shields to allow your nipples to heal
5. remember the bottle is easier for him, so introducing it at this point regularly may turn him off bfing anyway
6. sleep when he sleeps during the day (I can't because of my toddler, but housework can wait, nothing is more important than sleep!)
7. wake him for feeds during the day, so he feeds every 2hrs
8. nipple cream after every feed!!

"This will pass" is my permanent mantra!!! It is bloody difficult & I can empathise. But you are so close to things becoming easier so if bfing is something you want to do, you can get there.

There was a blog that someone on my antenatal thread posted that helped my resolve at times, I'll try to find it...

I agree that this is the hardest time. The baby may be cluster feeding to establish your supply. It won't go on forever and it will get better. I'm currently BFing my 8 week old and I know how hard it is on the beginning- it DOES get better (this was my mantra!) and once sorted I think BFing is the 'lazy' way.
The cracked nipples indicate latch problem. Have u tried your local BFing counsellor? U could also attend a BFing support group-I really relied on our local one.
I don't know about how you stop BFing except you're not supposed to stop all at once, hopefully someone more experienced will offer advice

Have a read of this DM if you can keep your eyes open... Some of her blogs are inspirational!!
Nurshable

And good ol' Kellymom

It's not am easy journey (like pg at times) but its so worth it in the end IMO!!

Good advice above. I was like this and gave a few formula top ups in the night. I managed to persevere though and am now at 13 weeks EBF.
A few things that helped me:
-waking to feed in the day at least every 3 hours from start of one feed to the start of the next

• Lansinoh cream smeared on breast pads very time you change them really helps with nipple pain
• nipple shields really helped too

I also started expressing at 3 weeks but would do it earlier if I had the time again so that my partner could have done a feed whilst I got a bit of sleep.

Google tongue tie, look at the pictures, then look in his mouth. It is a very common reason for problems like yours and quite fixable.

:( :( what a difficult start.

I read your previous thread, too.

Briefly:

• These issues are fixable - soreness is fixable, and you need someone knowledgable to see you feed and assess whether your baby has tongue tie or other reason why your nipples are damaged.

• There is no good reason I can see why you are not going to bed. You are almost ill with exhaustion, and you need to be in bed.....sitting up all night on the sofa is not good, for your health, or your baby's safety . You can lie down in bed with your baby (as long as you follow the 'rules' eg not being a smoker). Your dh - who I gather has the bed because he needs his sleep - can use sofa.

Hope you get good help soon - first step would be to phone the midwife and arrange a home visit today.

My DD is breastfed, but at 9 pm every evening I give her a bottle of lovely, warm formula milk, one for hungrier babies. She (mostly) sleeps through the night after having this.

Of course, breast is best, but I also think there is a place for the odd bottle of formula as well. You need your sleep.

The first two weeks are the hardest. Your body will get used to the new sleep pattern and your nipples will heal. I had the same problem, use lansinoh or your own breast milk on your nipples. Try to keep them uncovered and don't wear a bra until it has healed.

Get the baby checked for tongue tie (mostly for peace of mind, usually the issue is a bad latch).

Keep doing it, remember that as natural BF is, you both need to learn to do it.

You poor thing!

Would agree that you need to get him checked for good latch and for tongue-tie. If that's what's causing the problems, then snipping will solve it.

I know nipple shields are controversial and I never used them myself but one of my friends found them a godsend.

Don't know what your dh's job situation is but if you are going to supplement with formula, could your dh give him a bottle at say, 9 pm and then at 12pm and let you sleep from 9pm to 3am? Even for just one night? You sound like you need it!

Are using Lansinoh nipple cream? If not get some and lather it on, also let the air get to you nipples when you can.

You've already had lots of good advice but a few points to add:

• nipple shields helped me, they didn't stop the pain completely but did reduce it greatly and as the baby wasn't sucking directly on the nipple it gave them a chance to recover from blistering.

• Expressing very early on was disastrous for me (I was advised to try at hospital before my milk had even come in, to try and get more colostrum into DD) as it led to bleeding and blisters. So I'd definitely seek advice from an expert before starting pumping as too soon can do more harm than good.

• But once you can express successfully, try stocking up on milk over the day and using that for the night feed - that way your partner can share night feeds and they hopefully won't go on for hours once the baby learns to finish a bottle quickly.

Obviously don't do this too soon if the expert advice says you need to use the night feeds to establish your supply, though - I probably started using expressed milk for night feeds at about 5-6 wks old.

• Go to a local BF support group if you have one - no substitute for face-to-face support and being able to chat to other mums who have had similar issues or are going through it too!

Also, don't beat yourself up about starting formula if that's how it pans out. It's not ideal, breast is better, but it really wouldn't be the end of the world. Sometimes things don't work out perfectly and as long as your baby is happy and you are sane, that's all that really matters.

As an alternative view... I gave up bf for precisely those reasons you mentioned. I wanted some sleep. I wanted to share night time responsibility with dh. I wanted my body back. I didn't enjoy the sensation of bfing.

I swapped to bottles with dd now aged 9 and when ds 6 months was born I didn't even bother to try and breastfeed and went straight onto bottles. Both sleeping through from 9 weeks. No idea if this was formula or not but the formula did seem to make them go longer between feeds.

I have no regrets. Both are healthy and happy. My only regret really is I felt guilty about it in the first place !!

If you do decide to stop your milk will dry up if you don't keep stimulating the nipples. If they are really sore express a tiny amount to release the pressure and try and leave to settle.

You can get sleep with EBF babies, I have experienced 3DC who have all slept for 7-8 hours a night without feeding from 5-7 weeks and 11-12 hours a night from 7-12 weeks.

Babies don't always need formula to sleep well at night, I posted on your other thread about early evening cluster feeding and the 11pm feed.

Do get your baby checked for tongue tie, go to bed as early in the night as you can whenever you want. No point sitting up on sofa and feeling exhausted.
I don't know how you would stop bf but I presume very gradually? If you went over to bottles completely maybe you would need to pump and slowly reduce the time you pump for.
I know you've probably heard it before but I know exactly how you feel, when my DS was 3-4wo I sat sobbing between feeds because I was:

1. exhausted
2. in pain
3. full of new mum worries My son had tongue tie so he would be on the breast for hours and it really hurt. Once the tongue tie was spotted and snipped it very very quickly got better. This is why so many people on here have said about latch/tongue tie. Whatever you choose to do will be ok, you will still be a brilliant mummy.

Sorry me again! I just read your other post: you are sitting up on the sofa at night trying to feed? Is this all night? If so no wonder you are totally exhausted.
Please get into bed, if you want to co-sleep your HV or midwife can give you lots of info about safe co-sleeping, then you can snooze while baby feeds.
But lots of people can't/don't want to co-sleep, I couldn't. Could you get one of those cots which fix to the side of the bed? Or cot with side taken off and pushed right up to your side of the bed? Then when baby has finished feeding you gently slide them over into their cot space.
This is what I did; we had a side cot thing and I could just ease my son over when I was finished.
But please, whatever you choose to do, off the sofa and into bed. Your husband can sleep on the sofa - you need the bed.

Others have said get DH on the sofa and get the bed for yourself.

I didn't feel comfortable cosleeping until very recently. So I'm going to tell you what we did (although I'm no expert and DD has ended up mixed fed, so take or leave!)

During the night, I sat on the sofa, awake, feeding and watching the Olympics on iPlayer. When DD fell asleep on me, I tried to put her in her carrycot and get a nap myself. So I was sleeping about 3 hours at night, while DH got a decent night's sleep. I'm a much better sleeper than him - if I'd tried to get those sofa naps in bed, he would have been awake for hours.

During the day, DH did everything except feed DD. She wouldn't be put down, but with DH checking in on us every so often, I felt much safer co sleeping for daytime sleep (in a light room, if that matters). So I got a good few hours sleep during the daytime too.

After a few weeks, she would sleep for an hour or two at a time in the Moses basket at night. It did pass.

Go with your heart, if you want to try to continue to bf then follow everyone else's advice above.

If you are not enjoying it, or doing it because of guilt or because you think you should then stop. Take some painkillers, and don't express unless you really need to and your milk will be gone v. Quickly.

Do what makes you happy and everything will be ok

Sorry whoever said breast is best that is nonsense in my book. A happy mum is best.