STRESSED ABOUT WEANING AND WORK ECT

[mooshy]

Hi-I am going back to work in a fortnight for just 2 days a week.My baby is 28 weeks old and I fully breastfed until about 2 weeks ago.I am slowly getting him used to tastes by mixing EBM (expressed breast milk ) with baby rice and a pureed vegetable or fruit.I am however getting into a right state about what sort of regime I should be aiming for.I am someone who has to have a plan in mind and the harder i try the more confused Im getting.I am so worried about doing the wrong thing and really want to breastfeed as long as pos-we have a horrible history of allergy in the family.Should I be dropping a lunchtime feed now or just when Im at work. If so do I ask the childminder to offer him water or breast milk as an after dinner feed ? How many milk feeds should I expect him to have when I1m not there ?Has anyone got some sort of back to work plan or a good book they could recommend please.Believe it or not I am a health professional, but as such all my collegues expect me to know all these things.I have asked them for advice but my health visitor just assumes everything is fine because all she knows of me is the very organised and professional person i become at work !Really I am down in the dumps and fed of of them all assuming I am a role model in motherhood !!Sorry to moan-any advice would be most welcome.

I do sympathise. I'm very similar in lots of ways and it's so difficult with expressing, isn't it, to know the quantities to leave. I don't have much time at the moment so must be quick, but I'd suggest first of all working out what sort of routine you are on at the moment and modifying that as little as possible. Also leave EBM/food in large quantities for the childminder for the first few days, and between you you should be able to work out a routine. Will think more. HTH.

You sound like a perfect candidate for the Gina Ford book of weaning. She gives exactly the sort of timed and measured routines you are looking for, and I'm sure you are confident enough to modify them where necessary to suit you and your baby - which you would have to do slightly as she assumes earlier weaning

Mooshy - I remember this feeling so well. My dd was 5 1/2 months when I want back to work 3 days a week. She was still exclusively breastfed then, i.e. no solids, which rather alarmed the nursery. And I had a freezer supply of breastmilk ready to go, but no idea how much to send in or whether I would be able to produce enough milk for her etc.

I don't really have a suggested regime - I think every baby is different and you will find out what your baby needs by a certain amount of trial and error. Start by sending in too much milk / food and after a few weeks you can cut back to what your baby actually consumes. For what it's worth I sent in two 7 oz bottles of breastmilk (for mid-morning and mid-afternoon) and after the first two weeks I started sending in some baby-rice plus milk or vegetables for lunch and asked them to give water with that meal. I continued breastfeeding morning and evening and expressed twice a day at work, mid-morning and mid-afternoon and just breastfed as normal at those times when I was at home with baby.

I know it's impossible not to panic, but now it seems amazing to me all the little things I worried about needlessly! You have already done brilliantly in terms of breastfeeding to protect from allergies (I had the same concerns, since I have eczema, asthma, rhinitis nut allergies etc). Your baby will be just fine. Good luck.

And keep posting. Pidge and I have both been there (well, Pidge helped me get there and I'm still there). Take care.

Awww ... motherinferior, I had no idea I'd had any impact on anyone at all. That's made my day. The whole return to work thing was the most stressful thing, particularly as I didn't know anyone else who was trying to do what I was doing. Wish I'd known about mumsnet then.

Pidge, MI, you give me hope. I am skulking back at my desk for the first time today and desperately worried about dd's unwillingness to take a bottle (23 weeks and exclusively b/f until a week ago). I'm having trouble expressing at the mo so I have left formula for now and hoping that now I am forcibly absent from her I will get more out. It's nice to know others have made it work - I hope Mooshy and I can too.

Mooshy - Though weaning might help a bit, I wouldn't try to hurry it along just because you're going back to work. The best thing for your baby would be to have the same at the childminder's as he has with you (but with a bottle of ebm obviously).

I was really lucky - I work from home so I was able to keep an eye on things, but would it help you to get the childminder to look after your ds for one or two half-days next week while you're not at work as a kind of dry run? That way, she'll be able to call you if there are problems and you can work on shifting his routine a little before you go back to work.

As for making sure you breast feed as long as poss - the important thing is to express when you would have fed him - for a while at least.

You'll be fine!

MP, the main thing is not to beat yourself up over trying to do everything perfectly. Mind you - I was such a worrier, so I'm a fine one to talk.

On the switch from breast to bottle - my dd was also an absolute pain and wouldn't drink from the bottle for months, but we did win eventually (have a look here for more info. But she won't starve, believe me.

And the expressing was hard work to start with too. I used to express every night at 9:30pm after dd had gone to bed. I would pump for 20 mins and only get 3 oz out, but it's amazing how that can help with your freezer supply if you do it every day. I also expressed when at work; to start with I was massively stressed out about having to get ounces out as quickly as possible and sometimes pumped for 30 mins and got 1oz. Finally I realised that triggering the let-down was the crucial thing, and I think it's almost as though your breasts have to get used to doing it for the pump as well as the baby. I didn't change my technnique other than maybe subconsciously relaxing a bit and thinking about other things, but over the weeks I found it easier and easier to trigger the let down within the first 3-10 minutes and then I was away. I can give you more info on that if you need it, because I became a bit of a pumping obsessive!

And remember - you've done brilliantly bfeeding till now, and even if you drop daytime feeds you can keep up the morning and evening ones.

Good luck. I don't think I achieved anything at work for the first few weeks because all I could think about was my babeeee!

SP's suggestion of a dry run (or a wet run?) is spot on - it really helped get my reluctant child to start slurping from a bottle.

MP - I found the milko really started to flow once away from her, and now I can get out ridiculous quantities (see the Mooo thread!). I agree about having to get used to the pump as well as the baby - and also to working out which breast is more productive, and how to work around this (I try and do the morning feed as much as possible from my less productive right one, so that supplies are building up in the left for later). In fact we still have a vast quantity of frozen milk in our freezer which may actually reach its use-by date soon and I may find myself donating to the local hospital.

motherinferior - just in case you're sticking firmly to the 3 month "use by" date on frozen EBM ... I think you can be a bit more generous with it. I read somewhere that in the States they recommend 6 months in the freezer as being the ok time period. At any rate, the milk is not going to go off overnight at 3 months. I certainly used milk that had been in the freezer 4 1/2 months.

I too had loads of milk and would definitely think about donating to a milk bank next time round - though not once I was back at work, more in the early days when I was spouting in all directions!

Er, I'm using the six-month sell-by date! Remember, dd2 is six months now and I've been hoarding neurotically since she was about a month old.

Actually, MP, quite seriously, I might have some to spare for you...?

Oh well
Very impressed at your organisation - I thought I was good expressing from 4 months. And most of that milk got thrown away trying to persuade dd to drink from the bottle!

The giveaway, pidge, is that this is DDTWO. With her sister I went onto mixed feeding at three months!

Trying to sell an article on expressing, at the mo...

Aha! Yes, I've already promised myself that for any future baby I would try to be a donor as well as filling my own freezer. Do post if you manage to get the expressing article published - I'd be very interested to read it.

Thank you everyone for all your comments .I have picked up some valuable hints, but more importantly you have given me some confidence !!!
esp from Pidge and Motherinferior !
By the way-would love to hear peoples comments on alcohol and bf-.Thanks again.

Search this board for stuff about alcohol and bf, Mooshy. There's tons.

Oh, MI, that's terribly kind of you! I'll mail you off board as I lost your address last time. I hope you manager to sell your article. I find it quite hard to pick up helpful guidelines on expressing and storing milk - in fact, I was discussing this with another Mumsnetter who works outside the home just the other day.

For example, is it really OK to express some, pop it in the fridge and then add more warm, fresh milk to the same container during the day before freezing the lot? And how long is it really safe to keep EBM in the fridge without freezing it? I have a feeling that paranoia is not helping in my quest to do the best for dd.

I did manage to get 10oz in 20 minutes yesterday at work but am finding it all a bit fraught. It's a long story but space is a ridiculous problem in my workplace so my "office" is also a fire exit route. We have a real boorish lad of a Building Manager and he is being an obtuse clod about my request for a small bolt for my door so that I can lock it for all of 40 minutes per day. I have instead been issued with a stretchy barrier on which I might as well hang a notice saying, "Come on in, your manager has her breasts hanging out". I daresay it's all round the pub already.
So at present I barricade myself in with a chair and a heavy box of old Royal Opera House programmes. I knew they'd come in handy sometime.

Hope it's going OK for you Mooshy. What would we do without Mumsnet?

Mears has posted numerous answers to those questions, Marina, and I tend to take the most ahem lenient interpretation - so yes, you can add to the bottle in the fridge before freezing. She's even said you can keep it hanging around in your own fridge for about four days (think Pupuce did as well).

10 oz sounds great. The most I ever get in the same amount of time. And today it'll be less what with the little angel waking up so much last night that I gave in and fed her (after which she retired happily to play with toy bears). Grrrr.

10oz would have been plenty during the working day for my 6-7 month old babies.

I would make up 3x3.5 oz bottles and go like this. Offer 3-4oz of EBM around 10am, 3oz of EBM at lunch (12:30ish) with the solids, and maybe 3-4oz again, probably just before maybe, but probably just after the afternoon nap (so around 2:30 or 3:30pm). That's how my babies would have worked. The carer can always offer a little more or less in response to what the baby seems to want. You could even give the carer 4x2.5oz bottles, if you want to reduce the risk of contamination; the carer just decants a little from bottle2 into bottle1 if baby finishes bottle1 completely, and still seems to want more, without risk of spoiling any milk. A good carer will soon work out to offer when to your baby. HTH.

Wish 10 oz would satisfy Dd2. Before Christmas she was up to 18oz a day (and she's quite a small baby, dammit). Hoping 'solids' (god I hate that euphemism) will make a difference!

hello mooshy

if you look back on here about august/sep you will see that i had almost identical problem as you.... first dont worry it will work out as it has for me. But it was tricky!!!
My dd was born in March 03, I had planned to go back Sep 03 for just two days a week too... how hard can that be?. I was breastfeeding and in a way it was my fault as I enjoyed it so much I did not get her used to bottles in time and kept thinking I would wait until nearer the time... bad idea. When the date apprached I start trying to give her expressed milk and she woul djust not take it. I bought every bottle and tried every trick. I was on mumsnet day and night. In the end I delayed going back by another two weeks and I still cam no further. I was so stressed about going back anyway and I could not see how I would do it. My mother was looking after her and in the end she said that I shoul djust go and leave it to her as she has had afive children and everyone said she will take it if she's hungry (not my baby) At that time she was fed 6 - 7 times a day. I could express about 8-9 ounnzes and then my mother was going to top her up with formula (i was reluctant at first) but i was worked 90 mins away and did not fancy carting expressed milk on tubes etc and also I have always hated expressing....The first two days she only drank about 3 ounzes if I remember, she just waited for me and nearly ates my boobs off when I got home. The second week, on the second day she got herself in such a state that my mother drove the 90 minutes into my work at 1pm for me to feed her. I was so upset to see her like that I had a sick stomach. Then found out she was allergic to milk!!!I was devastated at the hassle I was going through, surely it cant be that hard. I decided that I was giving my self too much of a rough time so I told my boss I had to take a another month off unpaid leave which was risky but he knew I had to. I spent the month trying to make her take the bottle and solids. She was now seven months and only starting solids as she had been too satisfied on breast milk. I gave her formul milk again and luckily she had outgrown the allergy. I start weaning her off the breast. At the very end of my month off I got her to happiluy drink from a bottle, I was deligted. In the end the bottle she liked was the cheapest ones from mothercare and latex teats from superdrug £99 for 3!!! I went back to work, I was still weaning her off the breast but when she was at my mums, I would breast feed her on the morining and that last feed at night, she had formula the whole day she was there. Eventually at 8 months I weaned her totally off. She never even looked for the breast since.. well I m not surprised as I cant see them - theyve gone somewhere!!!
If your baby is now on solids then as long as they are having a pint of milk a day then thats sufficent, remember ounzes of milk can be counted in babyrice, yogurts etc. My dd was on 5 -4 bottles at that age. Express as much as you can the night before, breast feed him right up to the last minute you are leaving the door. If you can express and freeze bags of 5 ounzes and a few 3 ounzes. Get the carer to give him 4/5 bottles and the 3 ounzes if still hungry. My baby had breast feed morning
10.30 - baby rice /water and bottle of expressed milk
1pm - Pureed veg and bottle / water of expressed milk
5pm - forula milk / pureed fruit and water
7pm - Soon as I got through the door I was like jordan so I fed her straight away.(she did not have this one at home with me)
8.30pm - Breast feed again even though not much milk was there it was comfort for both of us.
Slowly I dropped the feeds. I first dropped the 10.30 milk altogether and just gave her baby rice with water/juice in a cup.
Then when at home with me I changed the 1pm feed from breast to formula, then the 5pm, the morning and finally the night. As soon as she was fully weaned off only then did I properly enjoy being abck at work. I was so sick of feeling engorged and bloody expressing - always hated expressing. PLus i felt i got looks if i needed to express more than once just for relief. Babies get into routines so easy so write down with your carer your sleep/feed plan and your baby will follow... eventually! Dont let it get to you, I remember just wishing those weeks away and when i look back I got more stressed than i needed to. Good luck!

"Solids" made a big difference in my experience, although not for a few weeks until the babe is eating a substantial portion. The other thing to remember is that even if they are drinking all the milk you send it doesn't mean they're going to starve if you send in less. I dutifully kept sending in two big bottles a day, because I was naively copying what the formula people did. I think if the nursery had been a bit more clued up about giving EBM, and if I'd had a bit more confidence, I would have been sending in less in total and in a series of smaller bottles - exactly as zebra describes (much more clearly than I just did!). The moral is .... they'll be fine on whatever milk you can send in and certainly after 6 months you can top them up with solid food and other drinks.

Good morning,
I just read with interest some of your comments on storage and expressing milk.None of my advice is research based but i am a midwife and have (12 years ago!! ) managed to work full time and exclusively bf (by expressing ) my eldest daughter until she was 12 months-by which time she weaned herself.
This time around I still keep a sterile bottle in the frigde and add to it throughout the day.I give myself a maximum of 24 hrs before freezing.Also I have no worries using frozen breastmilk for many months.It may be wrong but i have never even dated most of the milk.
One of my best tips is to use a hard breast shell in the other side of your bra whilst feeding.If you do this every time you feed or express many mums will eventually fill up the breast shell during the feed.I collect about 3 ozs or 100mls at every feed now-which over 6 feeds in 24 hrs amounts to roughly 160zs !phew.
Anyway i add this to a bottle and freeze the lot after 24hrs.I cant write much more now because himself is demanding attention, but if anyone wants any tips on expressing/work ect i can try and pass on what i have learnt.Also would love a good natter at some point with the lady who has written an article on the subject.

Thank you Mammyshirl for taking the time to write all that.Its great to know Im not mad in getting so stressed about weaning and work ect.Ive done it before but that was 12 years ago and you really do forget !!
I had the same problem as you with not getting babe to take a bottle so I cup fed this time around from birth.
Thanks for giving me your regime.I think that is similar to what i shall do.First day at work next week.!

Loads more good advice here, thanks ever so much for all the reassurance and tips for feeding regimes. My hunch was to freeze lots of small quantities rather than big bags so glad experience from others bears that out. I'm lucky in that the nursery staff are very pro using EBM so hopefully they will also keep me closely posted.
Good luck mooshy, now I understand why so many people are just expecting you to "know it all". Must be very frustrating.