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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Question about supply & demand for the Nork Squad

21 replies

r3dh3d · 27/03/2006 19:27

Hi all;

My HV told me today that nighttime feeds are "more important" than daytime ones, because the hormonal supply/demand system works better at night. So if you feed your baby at night it will do more to stimulate supply than in the day.

I had vaguely heard this but had forgotten till today.

Is it true? If so, what is the definition of "at night?" Is it the baby's nighttime (ie 7pm to 7am) or is it when you're asleep (ie midnight to about 4am at the moment), or what? I'm wondering whether to shift the time of a dreamfeed about a bit, based on what HV told me.

OP posts:

beartime · 27/03/2006 19:29

wow - never heard that - will watch this to see what Tiktok says!

NotQuiteCockney · 27/03/2006 19:33

I think it's true. \link{http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T023700.asp\Here} is a link about it. It says 1am to 6am, but I assume it depends on your body's natural sleep time, iyswim.

tiktok · 27/03/2006 22:58

I think what the HV is saying is that prolactin levels are naturally higher at night, and prolactin is needed to make milk. However, once breastfeeding is well underway, prolactin isn't all that important to milk-making....I have never heard of anyone trying to engineer milk production around its presence.

Going through the night is not good for milk production (unless it is really well-established) mainly because of the gap it leaves between 'sessions' - a six hour gap (or longer) with no feeding (or even expressing) suppresses milk production, whenever it happens.

I don't think it has anything to do with natural sleep times - women on night shifts have been shown to produce more prolactin at night, apparently, even though they are not asleep. It's one of those circadian body rhythms - there are others, I have forgotten what they are!

Original poster

r3dh3d · 29/03/2006 09:25

Thanks Tiktok. I was dreading having to rearrange my evenings so that DD woke up even more times in the night . This HV is very nice, but she is a bit keen, bless her.

OP posts:

Helenemjay · 29/03/2006 11:44

Wow i had never heard of all these things my dd is 6 and half months and she sleeps from 7pm til 7am everynight and has done for about 6 weeks now - does that mean my milk supply will diminish in some way !!

beartime · 29/03/2006 19:22

No I don't think so (not that I'm an expert!) ds has been sleeping 7-7 since 13 wks and he's now 5mths and still exclusively bfed and doing fine. I think if you let them sleep thru too soon it may mean you don't get stimulated enough, but thta's in the first month or so I think.

throckenholt · 29/03/2006 19:32

I have a feeling it is something do with being the safest time to be snuggled up in a nest feeding young - a throw back to our far distant past.

I would guess all mamals have the same peak in prolactin in the small hours of the night.

Not fair - just when all you want is sleep

BornBerry · 29/03/2006 21:43

Hi
Nightfeeds (at least one) are important if you wish to use breastfeeding as a contraceptive for the first 6 months :)

Berry

Flossam · 29/03/2006 21:47

BB! Rubbish! I am sure you will find a huge number of women on here to testament that BF should never be used as a form of contraception! Tis mostly an old wives tale.

moondog · 29/03/2006 21:49

Well it shouldn't be relied on Flossam no,but in the Developing World,extended b/feeding (by necessity rather than as a lifestyle choice) has enabled many women to have some control over the number of hungry mouths they have to feed (I refer you to Gabrielle Palmer's brilliant book 'The Politics o Breastfeeding' for more on this.)

FrannyandZooey · 29/03/2006 21:54

BFing is an effective contraceptive if you follow a few rules. Only for the first few months until the baby takes other foods, though.

Flossam · 29/03/2006 22:33

I stand corrected then, but still doubt your GP would reccomend it!

beartime · 29/03/2006 22:46

unfortunately for me its a good contraceptive cos even tho' ds is 5mths old I still have no ovulation or AF in sight and am ttc (which is therefore impossible I admit!)

tiktok · 30/03/2006 11:43

Helen - well-established breastfeeding is not affected by long gaps. I did say this...no need to worry.

Regular night feeds are important for the contraceptive effect of breastfeeding. Why is there always someone who says 'old wives tale' whenever this is mentioned? It's a real shame, as many women might like to know about it. Of course it affects fertility - after all, most women don't get periods when they are fully bf? The way we bf in the West makes it less effective than it would otherwise be (because we try to deliberately leave gaps between feeds), but round the clock bf suppresses ovulation and when you don't ovulate you don't conceive :)

SoupDragon · 30/03/2006 11:47

It's not an effective contraceptive because you won't have any inkling of when it's going to "fail" until it's too late :)

oliveoil · 30/03/2006 11:49

I am living proof of breastfeeding not working, ask my mum and see the 15 month age gap between me and my sis. LOL.

Kathy1972 · 30/03/2006 12:03

Tiktok, might that explain why my periods didn't come back until 2-3 months after I had stopped bf (but when I was doing it I was doing it all day, though not in the night after 7 weeks) but my friend who bf morning and evening for a further 6 months had her periods come back several months before she stopped?

I was thinking it was because my fertility was declining faster than hers....

Kathy1972 · 30/03/2006 12:04

Soupdragon - it was an effective contraceptive for me because I couldn't bear the thought of milk squirting out of my breasts in the middle of sex.

tiktok · 30/03/2006 12:26

Depends what you define as 'effective', Soup. You also have no idea if your condom, or pill, or cap, or keeping your fingers crossed or putting your nightie on backwards or anything, is working....until it's too late :)

I expect you mean 'offering any contraceptive protection at all' - yes? In that case, you need to combine it with other aspects of 'natural family planning'.

Olive - just breastfeeding is not enough. It has to be round the clock, very frequent bf.

Kathy - individual experience is very variable. Don't know if it is anything to do with underlying fertility or not. It is normal for periods to take a while to come back after stopping, and also normal for them to return as soon as there are long gaps between feeds. A very few women get them back even with v.freq bf.

hotmama · 30/03/2006 12:34

I had my 6 week check yesterday at the hosp, and in the discussion re contraception (not an issue at the moment - but sleep is ) I was informed that in the first few months bf is an effective method of contraception as long as you feed regularly and don't go more than 4 hours between feeds.

Got me worried re not feeding at night! My dd2 is nearly 7 weeks and has a feed before we go to bed - 11.30ish in bed and she then goes to sleep, I don't feed her again until about 6ish as she is happy to sleep and so am I!

Dd2 feeds on demand during the day and is putting on weight fine etc - should I really be waking her up to feed during the night? Worried now that I may be effecting my milk supply.

tiktok · 30/03/2006 13:19

I wish I hadn't said anything now! Hotmama, I don't intend you to be worried about this.

If breastfeeding is established - by which I mean the baby has been gaining weight appropriately and reliably for several weeks, is developing well, is happy and enthusaistic about feeding and gives no signs of needing anything extra - then longish gaps between feeds at night are nothing to worry about.

If there is any question about breastmilk supply, then one of the first things to do is to increase the times the baby comes to the breast. this would mean feeding at night, in most cases.

hotmama, you have clearly got a healthy baby and a reliable milk supply. She's unusual in going this long, but this is nothing to worry about....I would not be surprised if she does start to wake up at some point though, sorry ;)

The gap of 6-7 hours will mean you can't regard your bf as cntraceptive, though.

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