baby pulling at nipple - ouch!

[florenceuk]

My baby is almost six weeks now. Just lately he has taken to wriggling, waving his head from side to side and pulling my nipple back and forward. He'll pull right off and then try and latch back on. If I take him off he cries - he clearly hasn't finished. This can turn an already protracted feeding session into an even longer one (and painful)! Does anybody know what the problem might be?

hi florenceuk

have you noticed that he seems to pass wind during these phases? does he seem to draw up his knees in a spasm of pain? does he grimace with his mouth open but doesn't actually wail for a few seconds? if so he may be what they call a "windy feeder" - my ds does this too. i have found that baby yoga and baby massage both help. i take him off the breast and do the yoga/massage moves which seem to aid the problem, but are not totally effective. it takes a lot of patience and repetition. i have heard that cranial osteopathy can also help with this.

Some moves you might try, having taken him off the breast:
*massage his tummy v. gently in a clockwise direction
*move his legs gently in a "bicycling" motion
*bring the soles of his feet together, and with the palm of your hand flat under the base of his spine, gently move his legs around clockwise
*take him for a little walk in the "tiger in the tree" position - carry him on his front lying along the length of your arm with his head looking out over your elbow and your hand between his legs (one arm - if you see what i mean)

as you can see it's quite difficult to explain! i see from previous posts of yours that you are in sw london - there are plenty of baby yoga classes in the area. lots of baby massage also, but the minimum age for this seems to be 8 weeks.

you might also want to look at what you are eating yourself which could be making him windy. gripe water might also have a beneficial effect.

i have to say i haven't found a complete solution to this myself so will follow this thread with interest!

hth.

My son was exactly the same, and was also quite a 'windy' baby. I asked myself every question you can think of, is he getting enough milk, is he in pain etc? I finally came to the conclusion however that as he became older and more adept at feeding he just started to play about more and particularly if something else was going on in the room at the time. I resorted to feeding in a quiet place without the rest of the family, tv etc to distract him. When he started pulling I would take him off the breast and change sides, and eventually he seemed to settle down and grow out of it. I know its painful, but persevere!

latest from our house is that - touch wood - he appears to have grown out of it in the last 3/4 weeks! agree with art re changing sides when he gets restless - that sometimes did the trick for me too. as my mother always says, don't worry everything passes eventually!

Florenceuk, There's a possibility you and/or your baby may have thrush. I've just found out that my (13 wk old) baby and I have it which, now that I know the symptoms, we've had from early days when I was given antibiotics for mastitis (antibios can bring it on). Symptoms have included my baby 'thrashing' and pulling during feeds as well as being quite windy. I also have uncomfortable breasts, occasional shooting pains, can't bear to have the shower on them, can't wrap a towel around etc etc....the thrashing by my baby stopped some weeks ago but the thrush has recently really taken hold of me and I have bleeding/cracked nipples etc and, to cut a long story short, am finishing breast feeding as a result. I mentioned these symptoms to several health visitors and a doctor but was only diagnosed last week when I went to a breastfeeding counsellor. She took swabs etc which confirmed I had it. I thought it was normal to have some pain during breastfeeding but now I know that's not the case. I feel very sad that I didn't know about it earlier as it's meant bfing has been a real stuggle at times. It might be worth you getting checked out as you/your baby don't necessarily have all the symptoms all of the time.

I find it so sad to hear people struggling with breastfeeding, yet it seems that most of us who feed our babies ourselves experience some sort of problem along the way. That is what makes resources like this one so important.

It is not normal to experience pain during breastfeeding. Any pain experienced is generally down to poor positioning or as MaggieW experienced it may be down to thrush.

I also experienced the 'thrashing', to a greater or lesser extent with all 4 of my babies. Sometimes it appears, (through trial and error ) to be wind, and other times it is in frustration that the breast is either empty or offering the wrong milk. In other words the babe is no longer hungry but wants an 'after dinner drink' - the fore milk and not the hind milk. So I try winding and offering the other breast and usually find that one or the other does the trick.
I think trapped wind in babies makes them want to feed more than they really need in a bid to settle their tummies. So it helps if someone else can wind the babe as they seem to settle better away from the smell of milk.

MaggieW, I think I probably have had thrush on my nipples on and off (have always been prone to thrush infections, sore nipple, and have had 3 doses of mastitis). In fact, baby is now 1 and am still bfeeding but it is painful. How does the doctor check properly for thrush? Can the breastfeeding counsellor do swabs? My bfeeding counsellor seems really helpful over the phone but never suggests actually having a look at my positioning or taking swabs. If they took swabs would they charge? Should I just presume it's thrush and treat with some sort of canestan type cream, natural yog or something safe for feeding?

Thanks for the advice. I did get lots of conflicting advice - either it was too fast a letdown, too slow a letdown, wind, nipple confusion - whatever! I'm not sure if it is thrush, although I've had ongoing tenderness and some pain when he latches on, it's never been so painful I can't bear to feed and has gradually been getting better - I figure my poor nipples are just taking an inordinately long time to toughen up, and the pulling on and off is not helpful. My HV simply said all babies do it, and we don't know why. He still does it, but I notice it gets worse when he is tired or not that hungry - so it probably is something to do with the letdown and whether he wants to comfort suck or not.

Thrush in the breast is something that not all health professionals are clued up about, so you may need to search out someone who is knowledgeable.

The Breastfeeding Network have a great leaflet about it. My friend kept getting thrush and discovered that she was actually reinfecting herself through breast milk she had expressed when she had thrush! She froze it, then fed it to the baby later on. The baby would then develop thrush again and transfer it back to mum - a never-ending circle until she read that leaflet.

Manky, Your breastfeeding counsellor (mine is connected to the health visitor system and based at a hospital) should be able to take swabs and milk samples for analysis, as your doctor could, without charge. I'm on a pretty intensive course of antifungal tablets, antifungal cream for my nipples and antifungal gel for my little boy's mouth (even though he's not displaying symptoms they assume he's infected each time he feeds). I'm also being referred to a breast clinic for a scan as the bleeding is continuing. I'm having to hot wash my bras each day as well as any other things such as my t-shirts which come into contact with my breasts (I use paper towels to dry them so I don't infect my towel). Ditto for muslins, etc used by my baby. Things are still v painful but hopefully will improve soon. Because I've had it for so long it's got right up into the milk ducts and will take quite a while (possibly 6 weeks) to get rid of. A friend has been thrush-free for the past six weeks but has just found out today that it has returned, so it is a fairly persistent thing once it gets established. Do get it checked out if you have any suspicions.

My Doctor discovered that my dd has thrush at her 6-8 week check this week, she has white patches on her tongue. He has prescribed some treatment for her which I have to rub on her tongue 3-4 times a day for 3-4 days, but didn't prescribe anything for me, he didn't check me for thrush, and apart from slightly pink nipples I don't appear to have any other symptoms. If I do have thrush is it not a waste of time treating my dd if I am not treated myself?

Apart from the possibility of thrush, when my DS was doing the same thing the Dr said it was slightly blocked and he compared it to a blocked showerhead! So DS was getting some milk but not enough and not at the speed or quantity he was used to, hence the frustration. I was getting sore from him pulling and uncomfortable because he wasn't emptying my breast. I ended up putting some Savlon on my nipple and it cleared up quickly. I don't know if this is medically advised but I did wash my nipple before feeding him again and it seemed to do the trick!

HTH

I would definitely recommend using cream on your nipples if your baby has thrush in her mouth. Nip the whole thing in the bud while you can. My doctor never mentioned it and as I had no symptoms, I was pretty blase about the whole thing. The thrush cleared up from my baby's mouth but a few weeks later reappeared on his bum. Then that cleared up too but a short while after, I started getting loads of nipple pain/cracks etc. It was really awful and I just thought that must be normal! It took weeks before it was diagnosed and even then my doctor 'didn't believe in thrush on nipples' and only prescribed cream when I really got pushy. Luckily my health visitor was really sympathetic so I perservered with breast feeding and after 3 weeks the thrush had gone completely. But don't follow my bad example - treat both of you from the word go even if you don't have any symptoms - believe me, you don't want to get them! And don't worry if you do get thrush - it does go away I promise