The 'hard sell' on bf and people getting obsessed with ebf - does it really make THAT much difference?

[aamia]

An honest question, prompted by the government leaflet thingy that doesn't list earth shattering benefits tbh. Yes, it is better for baby and mum 'cause there ARE benefits to doing it. Are those benefits really enough to bf when in excruciating pain as some people on here report doing, or to delay adding formula when baby's weight drops and won't improve quickly, or to delay medications for mum/subject baby to those while mum is taking them if she bfs. I'm not in either 'camp' so no personal agenda here, just curious really. I'm having to mix feed now and while if we're lucky we might get back to ebf, I'd rather he continued to gain weight, was healthy and happy.

So, is a smaller (so not no chance) chance of:
Developing eczema.
Getting ear, chest and tummy bugs and having to go to hospital as a result.
Being fussy about new foods.
Being constipated.
Being obese and developing diabetes when they are older

Really worth it when bf is stubbornly refusing to go well, and child and/or mother is/are suffering emotionally/physically? I'm in no doubt it is the rest of the time, but just wonder if we're over propaganda'd a bit as a population...

I have to say I've not experienced what I'd call 'propaganda'. Certainly a lot of promotion - fair enough, too, as it's a public health issue as much as eating 5 a day and getting enough exercise, but you don't hear those campaigns referred to as 'propaganda' run by the (my personal favourite) 'Breastapo'. I think people's objection to the promotion is, as tiktok says, because breast feeding is so counter-cultural in the UK particularly, that misunderstandings and misinformation have become accepted wisdom among even health professionals, not just the general public, who have had overwhelming exposure to FFing and not BFing. I grew up overseas (first-world also) and I was, and remain, incredibly surprised at how low breast feeding rates are here. As an example, growing up among a multitude of breast feeding women, nobody, but nobody, said they or anyone else they knew, could not produce enough milk or that their milk was poor quality. Here, despite the obvious proliferation of the breastfed human race over several millennia which should counter the argument, many people who have struggled with breast feeding cite that as the problem which meant it was 'necessary' (supported by health professionals) to either mix feed or give up altogether. (That's not a judgement of you at all OP, as I can't possibly know your full story, but it was just the first example which sprang to mind).

That's not to say no-one has problems at all - they certainly do, but the culture, not just the medical resources, are there to provide support, and it's this culture that the NHS/NCT/BFN/LLL et al are trying to engender with their promotion.

Stargirl - I had not realised that you stop producing milk if you get a very high temp and that is exactly what happened to my right boob when I had mastitis. It signalled the end of my expressing as it just didnt catch up with the left boob ever again and I couldn't make enough milk to feed. just interesting that I didnt actually realise this before. I just thought it had gone on strike. militant boob .

I think it's worth bf (for me) as it means I've never had to give any money to formula companies. Formula is not poison, but formula companies are evil.

I really don't get it when people talk about there being 'too much pressure to breastfeed' or 'propaganda' because hardly anyone does it, so how can there be too much pressure?? Our breastfeeding rates are pitiful, and I think a lot more support should be put in place.

I do wonder how many mums don't have enough milk because of undiagnosed tt so baby can't extract the milk properly and the supply never builds. The lady at our bf clinic said midwifes in the 'olden days' used to keep their little finger nail long so to sweep it under the tongue at birth to check for/break tt. That was when bf was the only way of course.

Even educating MWs would change things. Rather than going 'you must top up as your baby's weight has dropped', they could check for possible bf problems. But they don't. And I guess they don't because people do grow up just fine on formula, so that's easier. Even the pediatrician consulted about my LO before the tt was cut, said I was only to bf 15min then top up at each feed to get weight on him. And yes it did that, but supply is rubbish now!

I agree, there needs to be much more support to help women to breastfeed. Unfortunately there is just not the money for it and the money that is spent within the NHS on leaflets and posters is a fraction of what would be needed to provide that support.

formula companies are evil

lovely

Even if you don't like the emotive language, it would be naive to think that formula companies want or help women to BF. The companies exist to make money and the fewer women that BF, the more money they make. They do the bare minimum required by law (although not always, several adverts have been banned) and that's it. There are many ways that they try to undermine breastfeeding. If you want to read more about it then The Politics of Breastfeeding is an eye-opening read.

Obv I know that formula companies are profit making and I'm well aware of the issues surrounding the developing world etc.

However it is glib comments like this that are so frustrating to women who ff. as if I thought "I'd love to give money to aptamil as I have no conscience".

Going to leave now as I know how this will go.

That is precisely why women who choose to or have to FF should also be campaigning against formula advertising. They fuck us all over, BF or FF.

Nothing glib about it, Dinosaur. I'm answering the OP, not editing my thoughts on the offchance of offending someone else. I know many people have no alternative but to use formula. Doesn't mean the companies aren't evil just because nice women have to buy from them.
I try (don't always succeed) to avoid buying from some of the worst human exploiters - the Gap, Shell, Coca-cola (I particularly struggle with that one )

I think that the medical profession fail to distinguish between women why try and have problems and women who just don't bother.

Not bothering is valid though, some women make an informed choice not to bf. It can be an uninformed but strongly felt choice...all valid.

Hcps not bothering or not knowing how to help women who want to bf is the real scandal.

Yes, I suppose i mean those who are informed and not informed. Though being uninformed is a valid option. But the medical profession and indeed society do seem to assume an ownership of owmen's bodies when they reproduce and until that stops I don't think women will stop being "lectured".

I don't have any children and fully intend to breastfeed, but don't know what I would do if it went wrong or just didn't work out. I don't know how I wouldn't punch people in the face if they started going on about evil formula companies or babies in somalia, or even worse evolution (I am a biologist)tbf.

EthelB who do you think will be going on about such things to you if you don't bf? No-one in real life has ever passed comment to me on my feeding choices with two dcs. Forums such as mumsnet are for discussion - it would be a sorry state of affairs if I was unable to give my personal views about the morality of formula companies (not formula milk; formula companies) on the offchance that it might annoy someone who might hypothetically be unable to bf!

I think it is unusual to meet anyone in real life who feels strongly anti ff or anti bf. More unusual still for them to comment on your feeding method, most mothers are pretty respectful of other mothers' experiences and choices. Now could it be argued that is partly because so many mothers have hated the disempowerment of pregnancy and childbirth in a system that has little time for individual, sensitive care that addresses the mother's needs. Sadly this is seen time and time again in the treatment of bf.

@mistress friends, family might pass comment. V middle class lentil-weavery background. Its all hypothetical anyway as I feel I have researched how to get help anyway which seems to be a big problem for lots of women who experience problems.

Its all hypothetical anyway as I feel I have researched how to get help anyway which seems to be a big problem for lots of women who experience problems

ethelb And of course, you have Mumsnet too we'll help you if you have problems!

ethelb sometimes the time taken for the help to figure out what the problem is, can be too long. You can keep saying the same things over and over to the health professionals and they just fob you off. MWs in hospital and in the community, bf counsellors online and in RL - until finally someone goes 'ooh, that's it!'

ethelb sometimes the time taken for the help to figure out what the problem is, can be too long. You can keep saying the same things over and over to the health professionals and they just fob you off. MWs in hospital and in the community, bf counsellors online and in RL - until finally someone goes 'ooh, that's it!'