No milk in left boob/combo feeding advice

[Spuddybean]

Hi All

I am a new mum and I really wanted to BF. But i just am not producing enough milk. My left breast just doesn't make anywhere near enough and my baby is hungry and also lazy (he falls asleep on the boob after 10 mins and his suction just comes and goes).

We bought a breast pump so i could see what i was making. 20 mins of full/strong suction on the right (not comparable to lazy baby sporadic sucks) gives 1.5oz and 1 hour on the left gives .5oz. Both have been given the same stimulation, but the left has an inverted nipple so i'm not sure if that is why.

The baby wants 2oz every 2 hours and is unwilling to suck for longer than 20 mins so i don't think exclusive bf is going to work.

Anyway, after another horrendous day and night of just constant feeding and crying baby. We gave him some formula as a top up. He loved it :( He guzzled it down like we'd been starving him and took a solid 2oz every 2 hours on the dot for 4 feeds.

I expressed while he was having this too so we had a store of my milk.

So now i think we are planning to combination feed.

I suppose therefore my questions are; is it normal to not produce enough milk in one breast? Is combo feeding a good idea? What formula is best and compliments this style of feeding?

I am really disappointed as this was the part of motherhood i was looking forward to the most. I really want the connection and comfort of him on my breast, so are there any 'methods' or tips to combo feeding? should I alternate feeds or do each feed with some expressed milk/formula then finish of with boob?

Thanks

Glad you are feeling better and more rested, spuddy.

Your midwife is wrong about not being able to feed a 9 pounder on one breast - just wrong. Mothers feed twins and more, when they are a lot bigger than that :) The difficulty is not physical - the breasts produce the milk they are 'asked' to produce - but yes, it can be more time consuming to build up the supply.

Your DP may be a lovely guy in many ways but it is not in the least 'supportive' to be unable/unwilling to cook or do house stuff with a mother and baby just 10 days old :( :(

3-4 ounces of formula at a time is a lot for a 9 pound baby and is likely to take the place of breastfeeding within a short time - if you do the maths he is getting most of his calories from formula and this will leave little room for breastmilk....it sounds to me that you need someone knowledgable to observe a feed and see if milk transfer can be improved on both breasts. When I say observe a feed, I mean not just look at latching and then say it's ok and see no more than a few seconds of the feed. I mean a whole feeding 'session'.

I feel sad for you because I can hear how sad you are about all this :( Breastfeeding will not last the 6 weeks you are hoping for, with 3-4 oz top ups each time at 9 days....you can of course put your baby to your breast for as long as you want to, whether or not he is getting any milk, but for nutrition purposes, bf does not sustain with that level of supplementation, and you need to know that, so you can make a genuine choice.

Is there anyone else you can ask to see you - not a midwife who does not understand about one-breast feeding, not someone who sees a latch and says everything is ok, not someone whose only practical suggestion is express and massage (why massage??), but someone who knows their stuff?

There are a few things you have posted which make me wonder about tongue tie.

have a read of this and see what you think

Bear in mind that if he has been checked already, it could well be that the person doing the checking is NOT an expert.

Good point, mawbroon.

Thanks Tiktok, your post has upset me, not saying you are wrong or shouldn't have told me. But i just feel so powerless to sort this out.

My DP is working/out of the house from 7-8 everyday so apart from weekends cannot do house stuff/cooking and that's just the way it is. He also sees how distressed DS is when he's hungry and how satisfied he is when he has formula. So quite naturally is veering towards formula feeding DS.

I just fed DS and due to having someone come to the door and not being prepared, had to let DS cry for a few mins. So by the time i got to feed him he was furious and hungry. I put him on the left boob with the shield and he sucked the nipple right out, i quickly pulled off the shield and put my nipple back in and he managed to get a 15 minute feed out of it. Then had 15 mins on the right and then took 2oz of formula.

I don't know who could observe a feed. The community MW and MW's in the labour ward observed the latch on the left and basically said it was never going to happen consistently.

How long does a full boob feed last? Because DS stops on the boob after 15 mins and just wont suck anymore. If he is going to need to be fed for an hour every other hour then i just don't think i can cope.

I will have a look at tongue tie now - i've never heard of it so have no idea what it is.

Oh, and apparently massage (kneading etc) stimulates production.

Sorry, spuddy, i did not intend to upset you - you are already low enough. But I take nothing back.

Our society is crazy - expecting new mothers to be caring for a new baby alone for hours and hours. In previous generations, you'd be cossetted and cared for, there'd be someone to answer the door, and make you nice snacks and drinks, and do shopping and so on.

I'd still encourage you to think what your DH could do, despite those long hours. Minimum housework, bringing in food, doing the shopping and putting a wash on....none of that should be too hard, in my view, and it shouldn't be what you are doing.

15 mins is fine for a breastfeed. Then wait a few mins and offer the breast again if he is alert and awake....he must be sufficiently perky to take the formula, so maybe he'd go back to the breast at least some of the time. If he is zonked out that's ok, too.

Any of the breastfeeding helplines might be able to get someone out to see you and observe a feed (and look for tongue tie, too).

(Massage is useful for a very short time before expressing, as the increased blood flow helps let down. It doesn't affect production, and it has no benefit apart from just before you express).

It's the weekend coming up, and you should get a chance to rest and reflect and get some hands on help...hope it's good for you.

spuddy my DS only fed for 15 mins on just the one side per feed. I still offer both but he rarely takes it.

I was stressing about the same thing (& loads more stuff) in the beginning. People kept saying they need to feed for 20mins in each side & all sorts of nonsense but they don't.

Every baby is different. They all have their unique way of feeding. Rather than there being something wrong, my baby just happens to be a really efficient feeder. By 9-10 weeks he could polish a boob off in 3 mins flat, while all the other mums were sitting on the sofa for 20-45mins, I was stressing about why he didn't feed longer getting on with my day. It evened out by four months they were all taking 5min ish for a feed.

My point is that it changes so much (I didn't know this). What they do now won't be what they do in a few weeks time.

Where abouts are you based? I will happily try & find someone local to you to help.

spuddy can you get to a bf support group? They usually run in the children's centres and have trained bf counsellors I advise you. I tarted going when I was having issues with DS, and they watched the whole feed, checked latch, tongue tie etc. the support and advice I got was brilliant, compared to many mw's who surprisingly know little about bf. You could call la leche league for group info/speak to a counsellor.

DS was born 6wk prem and on Scbu for 3 wk. he wasn't strong enough to bf at first so I had to start expressing every 4hr day and night for 10 min a side and tube feed him while slowly building up on bf's til he was strong enough to do it every feed. His feeds did take ages for a while, but he did get much quicker and more efficient. I was told not to express more than 10-15min each side, and yes the amounts you get off (ESP in early days) can look miniscule. I agree that maybe your DH could help with odd things around the house- there's also no harm living on microwave meals for a short while. I pretty much abandoned housework for a good while and just focused on feeding and recovering. I hope things start getting better for you

I know Tiktok - it just upset me that something i have looked forward to doing all my life is so hard and governed by circumstances beyond my control.

I agree that society isn't supportive, but i don't agree that in previous generations it was any different. Maybe in other european cultures, with closer families (spain/italy/greece) but i've never known of any British families who would have had the 'cossetting and caring' attitude. My mum was very much left to her own devices by her family, as were my grandmothers, they would also have had other children to care for and been expected to have my grandfathers dinners on the table and the house spotless no matter what. They also were both looking after elderly grandparents/sick parents of their own at the time. I don't think British society has ever really valued childcare or that nurturing phase. Hence why everyone is wanting you to get into a routine etc.

My mum came over on Weds and was really pushing formula as i needed to 'get my life back' (just 7 days since birth i had apparently lost my life!) and get on with cleaning the house.

DP cannot bring in food as his commute home does not take him past any shops/take aways. He will bung a wash in but that kind of help is minimal. He is also tired. Last night he announced at 9pm he was going to bed. Which also makes it a very lonely day for me.

I have just been breast feeding since 1pm now. 3 hours of sitting here transferring DS from side to side, then him throwing it all up again. He is still going strong. One day this week the only thing i managed to eat was a bowl of cereal standing up in the kitchen at 2pm.

Thanks for the info on massage.

No rest for me tomo my sister is visiting with her husband and children and i am expected to provide lunch.

My mum is up next week mon - fri but altho she will help with the housework she will bang on and on about how demanding the baby is, how he should be eating ore and sleeping longer, about how this new modern 'airy fairy' way of feeding on demand is rubbish, how i need to get my life back etc.

I will look into support groups Ipswich - thanks.

Seriously - I am near MK but don't drive so am quite isolated.

I am going to persevere with bf but i just can't see how i am ever going to be able to leave the house.

You're getting on to my specialist subject now, spuddy :)

Until the 1980s, women stayed in hospital for a week after their baby was born. This was considered medically essential. Home birth was common until the 1960s and women generally stayed in bed, and other people took over the household tasks. This would last a week or two at least. Traditionally, and up to WW2, the 'confinement' lasted a month.

There would always be exceptions to this, but it was not thought to be 'a good thing' for women to be doing much more than care for themselves and the newborn in the first weeks.

Did you see 'Call the Midwife'? Set in the 1950s? Women were looked after better, postnatally, if it was at all possible for friends, neighbours and family to do so.

It is OUTRAGEOUS that you are expected to provide lunch for 2 grown adults and their children - they should be making it for you. When they come, maybe you can ask them to do this. Seriously.....why not?

Your mother is no real help if she is critical and undermining. If you feel brave and strong enough, you might want to tell her which subjects you don't want to discuss! It is rude to tell someone that what they are doing with their baby is rubbish.

Yes i agree with the hospital support, my mum was in hospital for 2 weeks. But my nans both had babies at home and were pretty much left to get on with it - this was 1945-1966. They were in south London and said that's pretty much how it was for everyone. The East end, which my grandad was from, was different, they had more 'extended' family culture. My south London Nan looked down on this very much as being quite a rough and common way to live! (she lived in a slum so not sure where she got her attitude from )

I think my entire family would disown me if i asked people to make their own lunch when they had driven 4 hours to visit. I will just buy ready made salads and bung a chicken in the oven.

DS has finally stopped feeding. 4 hours must be some kind of record!

The problem with mum is she does get results. She was here Weds night and took the baby from me and sent me to bed at 10. She gave the baby formula and managed to get him to sleep in his moses basket (which we haven't been able to do) and not wake till 4am. It convinced DP she knew what she was talking about and bf wasn't working.

spuddy your post is so sad. I was in your position with the combination feeding and baby unwilling to 'work' for the hind milk so feeding constantly. I fed him one night for 7 hours, I was exhausted so eventually gave him a top up and he took the lot! I sobbed for hours. Please don't put too much pressure on yourself. breast feeding is lovely but its not the be all and end all. Ds is now 7 months and is healthy and happy. when bfing I had a fussy baby who slept, cried or fed, it drained me and that affected our bond in a negative way. I ended up bfing for comfort/ start of feed (would put kettle on, feed for half an hour and then make a top up) and topping up with formula. yes, this meant that I went to ff only at 8 weeks but that resulted in a happy content baby and a happy mum. There are loads of ways you can bond with your baby as well as breast feeding. I am not telling you to ff, just telling you my story. I got loads of support to bf also, it just didnt work for us. The best thing a feeding advisor said to me was that 'you are a good mum if you bf and you are a good mum if you ff' (i was sobbing in her office for the 2nd time in a week at the time). Try and enjoy bfing, if it is not enjoyable then give a top up

Spuddy, we will have to differ on the family obligation thing. Someone has to go out and buy the salads and the chicken and put the bird in the oven and open the packs and set the table and assess quantities.....and that's you and you have other tasks! Families differ (you have just shown this in your post) and in many, no one would dream of landing on a new mum and baby as soon as this, expecting to be fed. A cup of tea, made by the guests, is the maximum hospitality anyone should expect :) If that's not enough after a long drive then visit at a later date!

Your mum struck lucky when she got your baby to sleep :) , or perhaps she used a lot of formula. A 5-6 hour sleep is not something you want for a tiny baby....though as a one off, no prob, and you probably needed the rest!

Thanks Rhubarb. I just feel totally torn. I feel like a bad mum if i breastfeed and let him be hungry and grumpy all the time, and a bad mum if i give him formula. I keep crying about it. One of the nct group i am in came over today with her baby. He just latched on straight away and guzzled a feed. i felt so shit.

As i have said upthread, i always thought i would be a natural at this. I also thought i would be a natural at the birth as well, but that went very wrong too. I just feel that the baby doesn't love me because i can't look after him properly. I feel totally out of my depth with everything. i just have no idea what i'm doing. I know this sounds awful but i am regretting even having the baby now. Oh dear, i seem to have got myself in a bit of a state again.

It's DP's birthday and i don't want to be crying when he comes home.

Don't underestimate how tough those first few weeks are, especially with a traumatic birth to recover from. You are do early in but it does get better, I promise.

You are doing a brilliant job of looking after your LO. Looking after a baby is more than just feeding (although it doesn't feel like it in the beginning), it's all the worry, love and cuddles us mums do too. Babies cry, especially new ones. They are just as shocked as we are by the situation.

Your posts make me so cross that women aren't better supported post-natally. I felt completely the same as you, I think a lot of women do. The whole thing was so different to how I was lead to believe it would be. I has no idea what I was doing either & cried all the time. I got more help on MN than I did in real life, which is shocking really.

I've found a few thing that may help in you area which I will PM you.

Get DH to help out as much as poss over the weekend. Don't worry about him being tired, everyone is tired with a newborn.

Spuddy, I am so sorry you are feeling like this. .

It will get better, but it doesn't sound like you do have much support. Instead of people reassurring you that you are a good Mum and you are getting things right, it sounds like everyone close to you is telling you the opposite.

I don't know if this will help or not, but I didn't manage to BF my first 3 DC for very long at all. Then I had very premature twins, one of whom was in NICU and as I expressed for her I got to learn a lot about breastfeeding. Then, when I had DD3, I found out as much as I could and was determined to BF. My first 3 DC had been very easy babies, I breezed through it and expected DD3 to be the same. How wrong I was! She wouldn't let me put her down at all, she cried a lot and I was in so much pain due to a bad latch and then mastitis twice in the first three weeks that I dreaded her coming near me or waking up. My Mum stayed for 10 days after DD was born and held her once, as I was so afraid she'd wake up and need feeding. I wondered constantly if I was being selfish and carrying on breastfeeding for my own reasons and not because it was best for DD. I was lucky that I had the benefit of knowing how I felt later on after giving up BFing with my DS's and that I had wished I'd been able to continue and I knew if I stooped I'd regret it and I knew that BF was best for my DD and that it would get better. I kept telling myself it would get better.... Gradually it did and now DD is 15 months and everything is great! Those early days where I felt like I didn't want my very much wanted and loved baby anywhere near me seem a distant memory and the bond is there and it is really strong. I admit that I will BF my next baby and I am already dreading the early days, but I tell myself I know it will pass.

Now, obviously you're not me, but I wanted to say to you that I was in a similar position to the one you're in now and it was only sheer bloody mindedness that kept me going, but it did get better. You're not alone in how you feel now, it's not easy for everyone at the start by any means.

spuddy I have been there, and felt exactly like that but once ds was having top ups when I felt he needed them and not constantly trying to avoid them he was so settled and content i just thought to myself 'who am I doing this for?' I thought it was for ds but he is happy as larry on formula. It wasnt an easy decision for me at all I cried a lot and when i decided to completely stop i was very upset (ds was still fine and happy). I suppose what I am trying to say is dont beat yourself up like I did, its such wasted energy. Formula isnt poison, as long as your ds gets fed in whatever way you choose he will be fine. Having a baby is a huge life change and I promise you there is no decent mother out there who hasnt questioned herself a million times over in the quest to do the best thing for the baby. Forget everyone else and just trust your instincts as a mother, do whats best for both of you and never mind what x or y is doing or thinking. behind closed doors they will be struggling with one thing or another themselves. Welcome to motherhood :)

spuddy - I noticed you are in Ipswich, the BfN have a very strong presence in Ipswich. if you ring the supporter line 0300 100 0210, then you may be able to get a home visit. our there are a number of support groups www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/breastfeeding-centres-ipswich

dow that's not what you meant was it. anyway if you follow the link you'll be able to find local spurt groups inn your area.

Need to read posters names more closely.