How do I know if he's getting enough breastmilk each time? And other ignorant questions...

[ixel]

Ok, second son but first time breastfeeding - ds1 ended in disaster after 3 weeks of trying.
I was sooo happy that it seemed to be better this time, but ds2 lost more than his 10%, is still not back to birthweight at 3 1/2 weeks, and at todays weighing, he's put on 100g in 2 days, but hadn't gained any for over a week before that.
My worries are:
1.He's only gaining weight because I'm topping up with EBM from a bottle, but I cant see this as a good long term solution.
2.His feeds vary greatly in length, and I cant feel any let down or emptying, so how do I know he's not giving up before he gets enough hind milk?

1. How do you judge if there's enough areola in his mouth, when everyone's vary in size? Some books have said that most of it should be in there, but ds2 would have to have a huge mouth to manage that as mine are quite big!
2. He seems to be in the right position, there's no odd noises to suggest he's not latched on right, I can sometimes hear the swallowing, and he's definitely sucking. So why do I feel its not quite happening right?

Sorry if these things have all been covered a million times before! I did have a quick browse over the threads, but am on borrowed time till one or both wake up!!!

ixel do not fret over how much milk your baby is getting from you, and dont comapare it to oz's in a bottle. breastmilk has a higher calorific content anyway so thats what helps to build him up.
'm so the eperts will be on to tell u more,
but be assured u are providing him with more than enough and frequent feeding only aids that too.

my dd i coud hear but my ds you'd never have known! she took 40mins he took 10mins max at each breast.

that shud read
i'm sure the experts ...

have u a la leche league rep in oyur area?
your hv would know.
they will give u loads of advice and theres a helpline i think.

here \link{http://www.laleche.org.uk\lll}

Hi Ixel,
I'm sure you're doing just find and your milk supply is still building up. Tilly put on very slowly at first and I never had letdown or leaking or emptying feeling for the whole 8 months!! Hopefully Tiktok will be along shortly but I think she says don't get hung up on hind/fore milk issues and I bet she'll say to feed more frequently too.....
Keep up the good work.

Thanks.
I feel like its just a test of nerves to see how long I can hold out before panicking into giving him formula!
He does feed frequently during the day, but since I 've given him EBM, he faffs about more on the breast, just like comfort sucking. He also seems to suck when he knows there's a poo on the way or wind, as pain relief! So sometimes he's only on for 5 minutes then gives up. And during the night he'll sleep 5 hours; if he doesn't wake up, I dont either. We're both better for sleep, but he needs to eat during that time.
I'm reading the NCT feeding handbook thing, and can identify with alot of the quotes and problems in there, but it doesn't make it any better in reality...

ixel I think that NCT book is utter crap - v lightweight imo and not really helpful at all.

No advice sorry but someone will be along soon I'm sure

How old is your DS2? Offering a bottle can cause nipple confusion, and is best avoided for that reason. Why do you think he's only gaining because you're offering EBM? How much EBM is he getting per day?

There isn't separate fore and hind milk. He knows how long he needs to feed for. Don't worry about this.

He should have as much areola in his mouth as he can get, essentially.

Maybe you don't think it's right, because it went wrong last time, and you're nervous? Maybe it doesn't seem "right" because it's not the same as what you're used to (bottlefeeding)?

It sounds like everything is going well. It's understandable, being worried and nervous.

I did initially start off cup feeding the EBM, but he midwife said not to bother as he was old enough to differentiate between breast and teat now. He's 3 1/2 weeks. Hence we're using bottles. I'm giving him 3 lots of 40ml approx per day EBM, also on her advice. But I'm sure he'd have a bit more, even when he's not poking around looking for the breast. I'm sure its only the EBM thats helped him gain because it was only when I really stepped thart up to a regular thing in the last 2 days that he's put any on.
I do thibk I was a bit naive at first, as it seemed to be going SO well, so perhaps that has made me worry more. But at the end of the day, I'm positive he would stop gaining again if I was only breastfeeding wth no top ups.

Hmmm. I do wonder about your latch. And giving bottles won't help that.

First, do you have any BFCs locally? I'm sure your midwife means well, but I find BFCs are more knowledgeable on breastfeeding. Please try to see someone, get your latch checked. Try to get as much boob into your DS's mouth as possible.

Second, I'd go back to cup-feeding. Less likely to cause nipple confusion.

Third, are you co-sleeping? This encourages night feeds, which improves supply.

ixel - where abouts do you live ? It would be a good idea to see a bf adviser. Reading a book at this stage is ok, but I really think you need support from another bf mother or bf adviser.

At 3.5 weeks my son would have been feeding several times during the night - around 12 feeds in 24 hours. I am not saying that is what your baby should be getting, it's just a rough idea.

Also how often does he feed during the day ?

I have copied and pasted this from kellymom.com for you. Please read the stuff on this website until someone can help.

I am sure tiktok will be round shortly

WEIGHT GAIN:
If baby is gaining well on mom’s milk alone, then baby is getting enough. A 5-7% weight loss during the first 3-4 days after birth is normal. Baby should regain birth weight by 2 weeks. Once mom’s milk comes in, average weight gain is 6 oz/week. If these goals are not met, call your lactation consultant. More on weight gain.

WET DIAPERS: 5 - 6+ sopping wet diapers per day (after 1st week).
Expect one wet diaper on day one, increasing to 5-6 by one week. To feel what a sufficiently wet diaper is like, pour 3 tablespoons (45 mL) of water into a clean diaper (if baby wets more often, then the amount of urine per diaper may be less). Urine should be pale and mild smelling.

DIRTY DIAPERS: 3 – 4+ dirty diapers per day (after day 4).
Stools should be yellow (no meconium) by day 5 and the size of a US quarter (2.5 cm) or larger. The normal stool of a breastfed baby is usually yellow and is loose (soft to watery, may be seedy or curdy). More on infant stooling.

OTHER POSITIVE SIGNS: After a feeding, mom’s breast feels softer and baby seems reasonably content. Baby is alert, active and meeting developmental milestones.

ixel - hard to say if all is well with your feeding. The weight gain was/is very slow from what you say....what sort of scales are being used? What is happening with poos and wees?