12wo ds only gained 5oz in 16 days, plus other probs, last ditch effort to EBF?

[smk84]

Ds is 12 weeks, we have had various feeding problems (initial slow weight gain, post tongue tie snipped at 4 weeks, 2 viruses, pinched nipples), but for the last 2 weeks, I thought things were going well weight wise (when things have been going well he has been gaining 6oz a week). Got him weighed today and he has only gained 5 oz in 16 days. If anything I was expecting him to gain more as I had been pumping after feeds a fair bit to try to stimulate my supply and doing skin to skin as much as poss. The last few days he seems to have been struggling with the let down and has been pulling back and off up to 10 times per feed (at its worst). I didn?t think this had any impact on his feeding in terms of the amount of milk he was taking. I saw the infant feeding midwife at the hospital today, she is going to refer us to the max facial dept to check to see if any more needs to be done with the tongue tie and we should get the letter for the appointment within 2 weeks. She was not concerned about his weight, and told us we don?t need to do anything different as he is looking healthy and alert, weeing plenty and doing yellow poos. She didn?t offer any help with the pulling off, but I have done some research and have tried bio nurturing and feeding lying down, both of which helped him to stay on a bit, but I never seem to be able to get a good latch lying down as I can?t see what?s happening. Also I can?t do these positions all the time. It is becoming a big problem as it?s almost impossible to relax during a feed, and I am getting sore from re-latching him so many times (he tends to not open as wide as the feed goes on). The bottom line is that my confidence was just starting to grown until all the pulling off started, and now with what I see as poor weight gain I am starting to wonder if I can carry on EBF (have posted lots on here about my anxiety, esp with relation to feeding). I struggle to fit expressing in as I have a 3 yo DS too. Feeding in the evenings is still quite tough (DS gets frustrated) and I was thinking of giving a bottle of EBM in the evenings to help with the fussiness and give him a weight boost (from pumping after his night time feed, and his early morning feed I can get about 1.5oz max), but I just don?t feel up to it. I am dreading feeds at the moment. My latch has been checked by mw/hv/lc and at local bf group and no-one has been able to help. I guess what I am asking is .. would you be worried about weight gain? Would you express? About the pulling off.. is it likely to pass? Should I consider feeding 2 hourly and/or taking a supplement like domperidone? Should I be making sure that he is spending more time actively sucking? How bad would it be to give an eve bottle of formula (have heard it would take 3 weeks for his gut to recover from 1 bottle, and hate the idea of giving him any for lots of reasons?.)? Wondering if it might save my sanity though ?.!!?? I basically need a plan for a way forward, and don?t know what to do. Have pasted weight below. Thank you (tbh we have only made it this far because of mners |!)
Birth 3520 7lb 12
3 days 3150g
6 days 3240g
12 days 3200g 7lb 1
16 days 3340g 7lb 5 ½
19 days 3360 7lb 7
23 days 3460 7lb 9
27 days 3580 7lb 14
33 days 3750 8lb 4
41 days 3980 8lb 12
47 days 4050 8lb 15 ½
71 days 9lb 15 ½ (he has had 2 colds between 6 and 10 weeks)
86 days 4700 10lb 5

Sorry, smk, it's hard to read your post as there are no paragraphs, but I think I get the gist :)

I agree with the midwife specialist - the weight is not a concern. I am not sure why you are so worried about this. The midwife has confirmed he is healthy and thriving. He was slower than average to regain birthweight, for reasons you explain, true....but he was always healthy, yes? Since then his weight gain has been perfectly ok, as far as I can tell. It is normal for rate of weight gain to slow after the newborn period, and in any case, he continues to gain.

The midwife is referring you for further advice about his TT - good idea.

I think this is still your confidence. Why do you not believe the midwife's assessment of his health and growth? She has seen him - and she certainly sounds well-informed and supportive. How could anyone on an internet forum think differently from her?

Yes, feeding could be easier and more comfortable for you - can someone else see a feed and assess the pulling off, as well as the TT specialist?

You are very focussed on the weight - and honestly, I see this as the very least of your concerns. Biggest concern is making feeds easier for you - not his weight. Think about my question about why you cannot accept the midwife's assessment and why you are seeking opinions from a talkboard about it, looking (I think) for someone to say 'yes, your baby's weight is not good and he needs to be bigger'....who could possibly say that? :)

Hi Tiktok, thank you for your post and reassurance. Yes he has always been healthy. Yes it is a big confidence issue. I guess I am seeking further reassurance that his weight is not an issue (it's not that i don't believe the midwife, it's more that i am conscious that different people have different views on weight gain and that people in a similar situation could well be told to top up or do something differently). I am not looking for anyone to say that he should be bigger, but I thought that weight gain should be about 4oz a week at this age, and would like to think that I am doing all I can to help him thrive, at the same time balancing what I am able to do as a mum to 2 children. So I am wondering if in my situation anybody would do anything differently (i.e. instead of feed on demand, maybe pump aswell or supplement) or carry on as we are. I am also wondering why his gain would slow down when his feeding hasn't changed really. I have been trying not to focus on his weight, but I do see it as an indicator of if I am making the right feeding choices.

smk, feeding/weight does not really work as mathematically as you are suggesting - and that goes for formula as well as breast. A baby may have an identical intake week by week and gain differently. With bf, you can tell even less if intake/volume is the same or more. Babies use milk for more than growing, anyway.

I don't see anything in your post that suggests you should top up.

I can't see you or your baby, but the midwife did, and she reckoned all is ok.

Weight gain tends to slow as babies get bigger because that is the human way of growing - babies tend to double their weight in the first six months and they never grow as quickly again in their lives. Weight gain typically slows after the newborn period (look at the chart - those lines are less steep).

Yes, feeding is an indicator of well-being - and your baby's weight is fine :)

I agree with TikTok, she's said it all wonderfully :)

And I certainly wouldn't think about changing anything until you've seen someone for further TT advice.

Keep on feeding on demand, you're doing great.

Please don't lose the faith. My dc 3 was 9 lb 2oz at birth but then lost and continued losing until I had to top her up after every feed with 2oz of formula. I had been religiously plugging her on and feeding almost constantly but she gained nothing in nine days, I was completely devastated but desperate to carry on.

Your little one is gaining gradually and your midwife is happy. I would just keep going. It will get easier; I eventually breastfed her until she was three, by which point I couldn't get her to stop. Good luck

smk - would it help you to have some real life conversation and support about this? I sense some frustration and a feeling of 'they're not really getting what I'm saying......!' from your posts! :) A call to one of the helplines might be an idea.

I had a DS who pulled off all the time. I had somebody watching a feed once because it was such an issue in the beginning, and we both said it was like watching somebody apple bobbing, his head was coming on and off that often. He did grow out of it, or at least most of the time.

The only thing I used to find is that if he did it too much, I stopped the feed and he would settle down again and we would be able to go back to it after a 10 minute gap. I suppose that if you are worried about weight (don't be as the others have said) this might appear counter intuitive but it did help with the soreness and made feeds less of a trial. Obviously I can't say if he fed better or got more but it felt like he did which is half the battle when you are doubting your own abilities. I am trying to remember how old he was when I started doing that and I reckon it was before 6 month.

I never did find out why he did it. My personal theory is that he liked the 'pop' as he pulled right off.

thank you so much everyone

Age with everything ticktok has said. Sounds like you're actually do a great job.

One thing I didn't not from you're thread is that you are expressing and finding this hard work? A baby is gaining and midwife is happy, then drop the expressing. Your maybe just adding in more complications that you don't need. Also remember the pump isn't as exigent a you're baby and what you express is no indication of supply. Some women can't express a drop but can feed twins without a problem.

thanks miggril, i really hope so, i just so often feel like he wants more than he , has, and for some feeds he is not content during , but is usually after. plus i get sore sometimes so assume this means he could be latched better and get more out, but can't seem to improve my lipstick shaped nipples despite asking loads of people to watch feeds. going to stick with it until friday then see where we are.. think i have some form of pnd and not sure whether can carry on ebf as it's impacting on all of us hugely.

tiktok - i think i will speak to my hv as she knows us quite well, she only works mon and tue though. bbb - thank you gor sgaring yiue experience , that's an interesting idea - when you put your ds down for those 10 mins did he complain to begin with?

hi ladies, just in case any of you are watching this thread, I have just posted a question here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1559638-13wo-latch-slipping-coming-off-all-the-time-getting-v-sore-not-sure-what-to-do-next
which is sort of an update and a new plea for advice. Thank you :)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1559638-13wo-latch-slipping-coming-off-all-the-time-getting-v-sore-not-sure-what-to-do-next

p.s. he has gained 6oz in the last week so nonn longer a worry !

Hello smk84. No my DS2 didn't complain too much and to be honest I only used to put him back 10 minutes later because he didn't appear, to me to have been feeding that long. However, my only other experience was DS1 who I would now say, with the benefit of hind sight was a very slow feeder. DS2 was a lot faster and more efficient so maybe he had had enough.

I also wonder if he had wind. He was a sickier baby than DS1 too so I wonder if he started messing about because he was struggling with wind, having drunk more quickly. I wasn't always successful in getting any wind up and sometimes he was just sick so I don't know if I was on the right lines.

The other thing that I thought of at the time is that he was much more interested in what was going on around him than perhaps he should have been but that was more of an issue once he started walking at 11 mths. He could be very difficult if there was too much going on - he would pull off to look round or worse still turn round to look behind him still attached to my nipple. Ouch! In fact, it was the pulling off that was our downfall as far as bf goes. At 15 or 16 mths he pulled off so much that one of my nipples became cracked and sore and eventually infected at which point I had to stop using that side and then the whole bf thing got too hard and I stopped.

Having got that far down the line I don't honestly think that the latch was the problem (only my thoughts of course, I might not be right). I would say that the pulling is the main cause of your soreness. That doesn't help much except it might be more useful to look something in your DS rather than the way he is feeding. I wondered if he could have a tongue tie and then noticed that he has had one treated already. Has it healed properly or was it snipped enough do you think? Clutching at straws a bit I know - I wondered the same thing when DS was little too.

Glad to hear your DS is gaining again though. I reckon it was the colds that stopped him gaining from experience of my two but he sounds back on track so hopefully he will be OK now.

Hi bbb , just noticed your reply here! Sorry for not replying sooner will do a proper reply when I can . Thanks for posting.