Nearly 6mo ebf baby - hugely painful, please help...

[timeforacuppa]

Hi guys

There's a whole load of issues in here so if anyone can help with any, I'd appreciate it! I've a ebf baby (first taste of solids yesterday - going well). I've always found breast feeding very painful - with first baby was told I was just one of those "unfortunate" women who find it painful and nothing can be done. Had a shocking feed just now and thought i'd check the wisdom of MN to see if there are any ideas...

Feeding is ok, baby occasionally drops latch and hangs onto nipple which I think I has caused some damage but I unlatch him. Not sure if related but I have two large white patches on each of my nipples - anyone know what this might be? When baby latches it is v painful but ok when he keeps going.

Key problem - I have absolutely agonising pain about 10minutes after I feed and lasts about an hour - feels like a deep throbbing ache in the breast. Nipples go white (like blood has been sucked out) and are super sensitive - painful if clothes touch. Any ideas? Heat applied to breast seems to alleviate symptoms. I did think Reynauld's syndrome but don't have problems with my digits...

Other issue - we feed on demand and baby is currently feeding every 2 hours at night (poss less in the day) - he does seem to have a full feed each time rather than just snacking but it means I'm in near constant pain ( and knackered!!) is it normal to have a growth spurt at 5.5months ?? He is eating solids like a trooper - absolutely loving it but made no difference to sleep patterns last night.

Sorry if this comes across like a moan...

Be grateful for any top tips....

Several things you mention make me wonder about tongue tie.

useful article here

Thanks maw... He was born with one but it was cut when he was 3 days old

Vasospasm is the name of what Raynaud's Phenomenon causes but it can be caused by compression, nerve damage, thrush as well as a change in temperature. Jack Newman on vasospasm here.

The white patches on your nipples, do they come and go or are they constant? Is there anyone in RL you could show them to - a BFC, IBCLC, Infant Feeding Co-ordinator? Are they small enough to be a milk blister (milk coming out of a duct opening in the nipple but as skin has grown over the duct it forms a blister) like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=white+patch+nipple&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=3kvXrEoVWgAY8M:&imgrefurl=www.breastfeedingbasics.com/articles/breast-infections-and-plugged-ducts&docid=eF11ldncOOft8M&imgurl=www.breastfeedingbasics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/BFB-milkblister_nipple-bleb.jpg&w=304&h=276&ei=I70uUPHFEoK30QWhl4DoDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=411&vpy=148&dur=3050&hovh=214&hovw=236&tx=113&ty=163&sig=106074889622808075360&page=1&tbnh=151&tbnw=184&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:74" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this or a plugged duct (clog of old milk in the duct opening like white fat/butter) like <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=plugged+duct+nipple&num=10&hl=en&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=KkLRzEvZF1SmAM:&imgrefurl=health-7.com/Atlas%2520of%2520Pediatric%2520Physical%2520Diagnosis/Breast%2520Problems&docid=RI72tM9SgSX9TM&imgurl=health-7.com/imgs/17/2289.jpg&w=600&h=400&ei=uL0uUKj4F4On0QWsi4HYDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1050&vpy=373&dur=1692&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=81&ty=132&sig=106074889622808075360&sqi=2&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=190&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0,i:125" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this? Are the patches sore or like eczema (scaly/dry/weeping) at all?

As mawbroon says there are things you have mentioned that make me think TT (the vasospasm, clamping down on feeding, constant painful feeds) so I wonder if the TT wasn't cut fully or just the visible TT was cut and there is a posterior TT as well (posterior is also known as sub-mucosal as it is under the membranes at the base of the tongue). PTT are very tricky to spot and can easily be missed by even skilled HCP if they aren't looking for a PTT as well as a TT.

Wow, Truth, thanks so much. Vasoplasm sounds exactly what I have - very helpful to know. It's exactly what I had with my first but the doctor said it couldn'ft be Reyanulds as my fingers didn't go white. This info is brilliant. Was in so much pain on one of my night feeds that I didn't go back to sleep for 2 hours by which point he wanted feeding again! White spots are the blocked milk ducts so I'll get my needle out as advised...There's a Breastfeeding group in our local Surestart centre on Monday so I'll go and get someone to check our latch. Thanks again.

AGree with what Truthsweet said about tongue ties sometimes not being fully cut. Definitely worth checking to see if the tongue is still restricted. Trouble is that tongue ties are often missed by HCPs, even those who run tongue tie clinics!

Thanks very much Maw, I'll have a look at video. I get the same symptoms when I express as when I feed so think it is possibly not connected to latch but I'll definitely check his tt.

Not impossible that you could be dealing with two seperate issues of course!

The blocked ducts and the hanging on the nipple could be associated with tt.

We had a look at the video and it does seem as if he could have a posterior tt. Do you know if it affects anything else other than feeding? Ie should I have it cut or just suffer a bit longer with the pain. I'd be particularly concerned about speech impediments which the Midwife who cut his original tt said was a good reason to do it (along with facilitating the feeding, obviously). Thanks for top tips.

Hmm, also had a look at this website and he doesn't seem to have these problems... www.cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

He's also big, (91st percentile), only feeds for 10 mins, isn't at all fussy before or after... So not sure what to do! I might call the person who cut the original tt who was called the breast feeding expert....

consequences of untreated tongue tie

Not trying to scare you, but ds1's tongue tie went undiagnosed until he was 6yo and he has many things wrong with him which are directly or indirectly linked to his tongue tie. It is linked with gut problems, allergies, sleep problems and dental problems to name a few. It's not just about breastfeeding!

Where in the country are you? There is a dentist in Huddersfield who trained with Dr Kotlow who is using laser on tongue and lip ties (does your baby have a lip tie too?). We will travel 200miles each way to get ds1's ties revised by him.

Also worth having a look at the facebook tongue tied babies page. It's a closed group, but you can request to join.

Nearest big town is Salisbury. I need someone to make a diagnosis as i ca't work it out from the pictures. He is able to stick his tongue out of his mouth, I have no idea how to check if he can touch the top of his mouth (?), he cries with a straight tongue, And his tongue doesn't seem to follow the Murphy Mnaevour diagnostics so it just depends on what I can see when I tried to follow that video, and I'm just not sure!

so will try the midwifery unit at the hospital... Thanks for info re tt.