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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Ds 48 hours old, horrendous trapped wind

28 replies

Pootle78 · 31/07/2012 12:59

Am bf ds and first day everything was going well but now when he latches on, it sounds like he is sucking in lots of air and is in lots of pain and discomfort. His latch is ok from what I can feel and is feeding for between 20 and 35 minutes at a time. This morning he was up between 2am and 8am feeding 6 times and was in agony but the only time he'd settle was on the breast but was then taking in more air causing a vicious circle for him :(

We're cycling legs and rubbing and patting bottom to release it from either end

Is there anything anyone can suggest to help him?

Thanks

OP posts:
colditz · 31/07/2012 13:03

Put him over your shoulder and rub his back firmly, and send your oh out for some infacol. If you keep him upright the burp has a better chance of escaping.

TortillaDeMaiz · 31/07/2012 13:47

the feeding every two hours is quite normal for newborns, even hourly sometimes. He probably just wants loads of cuddles from you and needs to suck to stimulate your milk supply. I wouldn't bother much with infacol just yet. It will get better in a couple of days hopefully.

Iggly · 31/07/2012 13:49

If he's taking down a lot of air, something is up. It's either his latch, you've got an over active letdown or could be tongue tie.

Can you ring a BF helpline or your MW and get a BF counsellor over ASAP?

My DD did this - she had tongue tie (which they claimed was minor) and I have an over active letdown.

tiktok · 31/07/2012 15:48

I think it is impossible to diagnose 'trapped wind' and even more impossible (if that's possible :) ) in a baby of 2 days old.

New babies settle on the breast and become upset, uncomfortable and sometimes screamy, writhy and wriggly when not on the breast. This is not 'trapped wind', but appropriate newborn behaviour - all it needs, usually, is continous skin to skin contact, gentle soothing and 'open access' to the breast (there is no need to worry that this means he takes in more air).

Everyone, adults, kids, babies, takes in air when feeding. It is not possible to prevent it.

tiktok · 31/07/2012 15:49

Tongue tie always worth checking, but very few women have overactive let down at 2 days pp.....

Iggly · 31/07/2012 17:22

I suppose tiktok - just throwing suggestions a bit quickly and forgot age of baby.

However my little one was very unsettled after feeds from day one - most bizarre as I'd expect her to be happy and content after every feed (she latched ten minute after birth). It was the tongue tie looking back and she'd do the whole vicious cycle of taking down air, getting upset etc etc.

OP you need someone to watch you feed - someone qualified as most MW have no clue.

tiktok · 31/07/2012 17:30

Iggly, I agree - OP needs someone knowledgable to support her and to observe a feed, and to encourage her to keep her baby snuggled in :)

Theeverexpandingrodders · 31/07/2012 17:37

Has your milk come fully in yet? Maybe the baby is fretting as the milk isnt in yet I know my 3 all fed fretfully for the first 3 days until my milk came in ?

eatssleepsfeeds · 31/07/2012 17:55

Just as a tip - a good way of winding which I found helpful in the very early newborn days was sitting baby upright on my lap, my hands under her armpits (allowing head to be supported too) and ever so gently and slowly moving her body in a tiny circle while her bum stays still - bit like stirring a big spoon with 2 hands. It would usually bring up a burp. X

tiktok · 31/07/2012 17:57

That's also a possibility, rodders.

OP - I really hope you are getting good help wherever you are. New babies rarely need the potential over-stimulation of bicycling their legs and having their bottom patted - mostly they need the calm and comfort or being enabled to feed when they want to and remaining close to mum :)

Original poster
Pootle78 · 31/07/2012 18:42

Thank you all for your replies.

I've had a maternity support worker here this afternoon and she has had a look at him feeding and said latch is good, no tongue tie that she can see and heard the noises we thought was wind and can't work out what noises are either!

My milk hasn't come in yet so don't think it's over supply. We thought it was wind as he was so uncomfortable last night and getting the odd burp seemed to settle him a bit. We've also been to drs this afternoon as he has got some infected pores on his skin causing a rash so maybe that has been a contributing factor.

Fingers crossed for a better night.

OP posts:
tiktok · 01/08/2012 07:22

What are the noises, Pootle? Glad you got help.

TortillaDeMaiz · 01/08/2012 11:03

Also make sure baby and you are well rested. Newborns can cry without stop if they become overtired. Try swaddling him and just lie down next to him, hopefully it can sooth him.

Original poster
Pootle78 · 01/08/2012 20:46

Just seen this tiktok, it sounds like he is glugging a drink really fast and then the odd squeak! My milk has come in today so he's now getting that, next problem is he falls asleep after 5 minutes then wakes up 30 - 40 mins later and then we start again.

thanks Tortillia, swaddling does seem to Help a bit, he's currently doing his "butter wouldn't melt" impression lets hope we don't have 3 nights on the trot with screaming cry rather than baby cry

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 01/08/2012 20:49

Has he had his paed check - ruled out cleft palate?

Original poster
Pootle78 · 01/08/2012 21:06

Yes viva, was checked on Sunday before we left labour ward and been seen by 2 midwives and maternity support worker who checked his mouth.

OP posts:
ThisIsYourSong · 02/08/2012 05:33

I'd second (or third) getting checked for a tongue tie, midwives and support workers often miss posterior tongue ties. This is a really good article and if you suspect it does sound like tongue tie, they can find someone who can check for you.

ThisIsYourSong · 02/08/2012 05:58

I've also got to say I disagree completely about being unable to diagnose trapped wind so soon - DS3 was incredibly windy from day 1 due to his tongue tie. If a baby is squirmy or wriggly when laid down, even in your arms and still being held and cuddled, then it's entirely possible it's wind at whatever age.

tiktok · 02/08/2012 07:32

Honestly, I really don't think you can diagnose 'trapped wind' at 2 days (2 days!^) - except in retrospect :)

Thisisyoursong, your baby may well have been troubled as a result of tongue tie, but at 2 days, the writhings, wrigglings, grimaces, strange noises, squeaks and crying could be anything. It's just not good to decide it's definitely 'trapped wind' because it's too soon to rule out other more likely issues - including i) this is normal for this baby and it will pass soon ii) this baby is signalling his need to be close and on/near the breast

pootle, it's still not clear if there is anything going on apart from normality...glugging and then squeaking can be normal. It would be helpful for you to have someone experienced and knowledgable to see a feed start to finish - would that be possible?

ThisIsYourSong · 02/08/2012 12:59

Nope definitely not in retrospect, as it is written all over his notes. I've had two windy babies and it's really easy to spot, really common and a real problem for both babies and parents.

Why would a baby start to squirm 5 or 10 mins after being laid flat and before they're even awake? Even when laid flat and still cuddled? And then they finally burp and are suddenly settled its just a coincidence? Just like the fact I thought my baby was windy and he turned out to be windy is also a coincidence? This belief that wind in breast fed babies does not exist is just bizarre IMO and takes away from parents getting the answers they need to their problems.

tiktok · 02/08/2012 13:19

I am not saying wind in bf babies does not exist!

But diagnosing trapped wind for definite in a baby of just 2 days is not helpful to parents (this was the OP's description...not 'wind' but trapped wind. Virtually everyone takes in air when they eat, including babies.

There are a number of reasons why a baby 'starts to squirm 5 or 10 mins after being laid flat and before they are even awake' ....one of the reasons may well be wanting to burp, and when they do burp, the wind is no longer 'trapped'....is it? :)

You thought your baby was windy and he was. That's fine. All I am saying is that a definite diagnosis of trapped wind at 2 days is not possible.

Why this is so controversial, and why it has inspired you to put words in my mouth to make it sound as if I said something I did not say (and do not think), I have no idea! Maybe you can explain?

ThisIsYourSong · 03/08/2012 11:54

You are just getting caught up in the wording of things - if wind is not trapped, it has come out and there would be no reason to ask about it. But your attitude in general appears to be that if a baby burps then that's fine, if they don't then they don't need to, but I don't believe that is always the case. There are cases where babies have problems with a LOT of wind for whatever reason that then becomes trapped OR need help getting their wind up (which is clearly trapped).

I've already said, my DS3 was very windy. He had a lot of wind and it couldn't come out. It was trapped. I knew this without a doubt from when he was hours old. IT IS possible to diagnose trapped wind at just hours old. I am not sure how to put this any more simply. I notice you changed your language from 'even less possible than impossible' to 'not helpful'.

This kind of attitude is what I ran up against constantly with my baby and why it took me three months of searching to find the Milk Matters article and get an answer to why my baby had so much wind (which was trapped!!).

ThisIsYourSong · 03/08/2012 12:02

Right these threads just illustrate what I was talking about:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/a1458214-Newborn-and-wind

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1531535-16wo-just-diagnosed-cows-milk-intolerant-feeling-down-about-bf

Someone listened to your advice which turned out to be wrong. Its not always normal! Not saying that your baby has any kind of intolerance OP, but its worth trying to find an answer to your problems. Kellymom is a really helpful breastfeeding resource if you haven't already seen it.

tiktok · 03/08/2012 12:09

Thisisyoursong - you claimed I said 'breastfed babies don't get wind'.

I did not say this, and I do not think it.

I also did not say it is impossible to have trapped wind at 2 days, but it is impossible to diagnose with any degree of certainty. To say it is possible to diagnose is unhelpful as it then precludes other possibilities for the baby's distress.

Is this me 'getting caught up in the wording of things"? I don't think so. It's making sure you don't put words in my mouth.

tiktok · 03/08/2012 12:16

As for linking to those threads - blimey! I make a suggestion to one poster (whose baby was not in any distress or discomfort), and a different poster with a different baby later finds out her baby (who has specific symptoms of blood in the stool) has a milk intolerance (not 'wind' but an intolerance to cows milk protein) and this proves I am wrong...how?

I'll spell it out.

Babies can get wind.

They can be troubled by it.

No one can be sure with a young baby (especially a very young baby) that distress and discomfort are due to it. It is impossible to diagnose at 2 days old, but in retrospect it may be.

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