I need the BF Experts.

[fob]

I hope this is not too long winded. I just need some clear advice.

I go back to work 2 weeks today.

My 5 month old son had been exclusively BF until just over 4 months, then I introduced fruit/veg purees and baby rice as he had began waking more at night.
As I've found out, weaning does not help him sleep better, despite my HV telling me otherwise.

I also didn't start expressing until 12 weeks as I was told my supply had to be established. even then, I only expressed if I was going out and DH fed him. The point is, he hasn't had much experience with bottles. Also - he won't take milk that has been frozen!

I'm nearly there..

DS wakes every 2 hours at night and I'm dreading this pattern going back to work.
I'm also worried sick that I wont be able to leave him enough milk when I'm out the house (8am til 5pm) and I've bought a bottle of formula as a standby but he won't touch it and I don't blame him it smells foul.

These worries are compounded by the fact that I feel as if my milk is drying up. DS is getting frustrated on the breast and I could not get any milk expressed off today!

What's going on?

I have searched the threads and found wee bits of advice, but I need something specific. I know there are some very very experienced mums out there who can help

many thanks in advance

How often does he b/feed daily?

How often do you try and express?

Does he take EBM from a bottle okay?

What do you do to get him back to sleep at night?

VVV

i breastfeed on demand - just now thats every 2 hours-ish, and also with the food i now give him

i try to express once a day, though i'm going to try again tonight.

he will take ebm from dh, but we haven't done that often at all.

lastly, he fallls asleep on the breast with me in bed.

however, we can put him down awake and he settles himself.

Fob...first of all,take a deep breath and calm down.
Secondly,reming yourself that he will not starve.
If/when hungry,he will eat!

Would it be possible to come to the nursery alt lunchtime for a couple of weeks to ease the transition?

There have been loads of threads on this topic,jam packed with good advice.
Have you had a look in Archives?

I don't think your milk can dry up if you keep feeding - remember your boobs will not necessarily feel as 'full' and 'empty' as before and, more importantly, it is not uncommon to feel disappointed in the amount of milk expressed but this is not a reflection on how much DS is able to take. I don't know why he is getting frustrated but maybe it is the letdown - maybe you could try to encourage the milk to come sooner for him eg. hand stimulation, warm flannel when he is likely to be expecting a feed?
That said, I'm no expert!

i feel he is getting frustrated because i'm not giving him enough milk. he's a big and healthy boy.

md - i can't come back from work to feed.

i have looked at the threads and there is some brilliant advice, but i'm feeling i need some specific advice.

i feel as if i'm being forced into using formula to satisfy him. and even then, i'm worried he won't take it..

Well, if you are feeding every two hours i cant see that your milk can dry up. After a few months of b/feeding your boobs will feel more flaccid generally so perhaps thats causing some confusion.

I think you need to formulate a plan with your DH. Get him to do the nights - probably best at a weekend. Express as much as you can for one "emergency" night feed. I dont think your DS will need it though.

In the evening, feed DS, bath and then settle DS into bed - you say he can settle himself.

When he wakes in the evening - get DH to go into him. Get him to calm him by patting his back or tummy gently and shushing him. If he is really upset get DH to pick him up and cuddle. As soon as he settles get DH to lay him back down. Get DH to do this until he settles back to sleep.

DH will need to do this all night if necessary. Set up a bed next to the cot for him to make it comfortable.

Avoid feeding DS until say after 4 or 5am if DS really isnt settling.

Do the same the next night.

Also add as much b/milk, double cream or cheese to his meals during the day as possible to add calories.

Have you got a good pump?
Think about hiring a double electric one,and setting some time aside (sacred time) to express over these next few weeks. Will set you up with a good supply.

vvv - ds sleeps in the same room as us in his wee carrycot at the bottom of the bed. do you think it's time to move him into his bigger cot in his own room? i was advised to have ds sleep in the same room until about 9 months, though i can see this is not a good idea.

also, my routine goes,
bath - feed - sleep.

should it be

feed-bath-sleep?

and should i refuse a feed everytime he stirs in the night?

thank you for this by the way..............you are being v. patient.

i'm a first time mum

Its recommended that you keep them in the room with you until 6 months.

I would move him into the big cot now, certainly.

The order of feed and bath isnt overly important - although i have always felt that in order for my two not to associate sleep with b/feeding i keep the final feed away from the going off to sleep bit. I keep the bath very low key and calm though.

If he wakes in the night you need to get DH to go to him. If he is used to you going and feeding him he is more likely to get frustrated if you go to him and you dont. (Ive had this myself very recently - it was a stressful 4 hours of screaming and crying but we got there in the end and i was with him the whole time patting and shushing).

thank you for advice.

one wee question - can i give him dairy just now? (cream, cheese). i thought he had to wait until 6 months.

also - iyo how many bottles of ebm should i be leaving whilst going back to work. i can't see me managing more than one..

Fob I must say that I thnk a 5 month old baby does need a feed in the night!
He's still very young.
Happily b/fed mine in the night until they were 9/10 mths,then started to think about going all night w/out a feed.
Night time feeds (although not ever two hours!) will keep your supply up,which will be good news for everyone.

Would also not move him out to his own room yet.

moondog - i'm quite happy to give him one bf in the night.
if i'm putting him down at 7 at night and i can feed him around 6.30 in the morning, then when do you think is a reasonable time to give him that night feed? could it be midnight, or more like 4am -ish?
i must sound like a mad confused mother!
he is actually v v good!

id say its worth a try to do the night time training thing... it might not work, but it might make it a bit better than every 2 hours, which is bloody hard work to keep up long term, as you well know

obv you listen to your own instincts and knock it on the head if you dont think its for you. its a good point that night feeds will help keep the supply up tho.

i did a sleep training type thing with ds1 at 5 months and it took about a week, but after that he slept through every night no probs. was AMAZING to sleep again.

having said that, ds2, who is only 1 year younger, had absolutely none of that and didnt sleep through till 15 months no matter what we did, so you never know till you try.

also, renting a pump from your local nct person is good - i got this enormous old fashioned looking thing from mine which was brilliant. no other pump worked for me.

and (will bugger off soon, promise ) the frustrated feeding is prob him going into a growth spurt - they feed like mad for a few days before a growth spurt, then sleep a lot for a few days through it. and yes, it feels like you arent giving them enough but you are. if hes a big healthy boy, hes definately getting enough, dont you worry

thanks nappiesgalore.

what was your sleep training thing?

that comment about sleeping through i would LOOOOVVE that!

also - have the avent electric pump.

i'm just away to use it - back in a mo...

'sleep training' (sounds so military!) with ds1 was a form of 'controlled crying'. i think there a few versions of exactly how to do it around. our technique came from 'the sleep book for tired parents', slightly modified if i rmember rightly, just so it felt more right for us. it was hell to listen to him crying at first, but MY GOD it made such a difference to be able to get sleep again when it worked. i think i said at the time that it was like getting my personality back!

re: pumps, i have the medela mini electric now and its ok, but by boobs are a bit 'tougher' now as im on baby no3. the big scary looking thing from the nct lady, which i used forst time round, was much smoother and more comfortable. and the only one that ever got any milk out.

good luck.
am off to bed now but will check again in the morn in case you want to know anything else x

Thought id posted but obviously it didnt work!

Anyway, depends how long you are leaving him for in the day. At 6 months i was b/feeding every 4 hours and giving solids every 4 hours. If you start expressing every evening then your body will soon meet the demand.

Moondog - my DD slept 11 hours straight without a feed from 11 weeks. My DS however has only just recently started to and he is 10.5 months. All babies are different - some need a night feed and some dont which is why i suggested having one bottle on stand by.

A baby at that age should be able to go about 7 hours without a feed at least.

Anyway - do give it time to work and persist. It doesnt happen instantly (well, not always!). Remember that as long as DH is there comforting him he is not being left/ignored/abandoned.
I always feel its more confusing to a baby to start something and then jack it in too quickly because its upsetting to do. If you see no improvement after a couple of days though i would certainly rethink it.

VVV - you say "A baby at that age should be able to go about 7 hours without a feed at least. "....I don't feel that is right. Plenty of babies of 5 mths do not go this long.

fob - your milk isn't drying up. Nothing you say makes me even suspect that.

5 mths old is too young to be sleep training in my view - upsetting, time consuming, and not age-appropriate.

It may be that the first weeks back at work are really knackering
fob....no easy answer to this. Give your baby a few more weeks before doing the training, or at least think about it.

Plenty do - plenty dont - i did say have a bottle on standby!

thank you again for kind replies.

tik-tok - have just expressed off 4oz, and will sleep in the spare room tonight. that means dh can comfort ds on his own.

my instinct is not to do controlled crying (if that is what is meant by sleep training) but maybe i can do more in my routine with ds.

i know ds will stir a few times tonight and i wonder when is the point to feed him?

tik-tok - maybe you could answer my query on how much milk i should leave during the day? i don't actually know how many oz's is a feed because i have always bf on demand.

this turned out to be a long post but its what works for me.

pump at the same time every night after ds has gone to bed. I do an 1.5 hrs later. pump for 1/2 hr initially, even if you just get a tablespoon's worth. over a week, you will find that your supply at this time will increase. soon you should be able to get a good amount in 10 mins. I keep pumping for a few mins after just for the stimulation. keep it up everynight to make your body keep making that feed. Even if you ds wakes up 10 mins later, you can go straight in and feed him. milk will be there - and he will also be encouraging your body to make more so your supply will increase. just be patient and don't sweat it.

I express for my dd and she was also an initial bottle refuser. the first couple days she only took a couple oz of ebm at a time at nursery - under a lot of protesting. the second week, she built up to 3-4 oz then 4-5 oz. she still only sips milk more than guzzle from a bottle.

you may find that the first day, he may take no more than 6 oz all day(don't worry, no baby will starve himself) which will give you time to express at work and provide enough for the second day. While you are at work, you will find that you will pump lots more because the milk is still there and baby won't be feeding.

Tiktok (as always) is right.
Working and having a 5 month old baby is very hard work.
I did it without my dh around,and a very active dog to deal with and it was bloody hard work.
Got through it though,and very glad I did.
Can only advise going easy on yourself,and getting to bed early.
[smile

This will be no help at all really but my DS2 wouldn't touch bm that had been frozen either. Heating it fairly warm and cooling it seemed to help a little.

fob - sorry, can't tell how much you should leave. Trial and error is prob best. It doesn't matter hugely - he will not dehydrate as he can have sloppy solids or a bottle/cup of water.

You then feed him when he is with you.

Fob, you have the expert here so I will leave tiktok to advise you on breastfeeding, but I just wanted to answer your quesition about cream and cheese. You are quite right, these should not be part of your baby's diet at 5 months old. Many nutritionists now recommend leaving cow's milk altogether until the baby is one year so if you can find alternative sources of nutrients then even better. But at the moment all your baby needs is your milk, and if you want to continue giving tastes of other foods, very simple fruit and vegetable purees are better.

Hope it all works out for you :)