cluster feeding - can you enlighten me about how this works?

[smk84]

hi, ds is 6 weeks old and we are well accustomed to evenings of cluster feeding. i used to find it really worrying, but have been reassured that it's normal so i just am taking each eve as it comes, and accept it as part of our journey. what i ddon't understand though, is that every evening is the same ! He feeds well (i.e. lots of swallowing and active) for the first feed after his p.m. nap (when some milk has built up), then i subsequently become more and more 'empty' until he is working quite hard to extract milk. eventually he goes to sleep and sleeps for 3 or 4 hours (and is gaining about an ounce a day), and feeds really well in the night. I just don't get how it never seems to improve. If he is doing this to build my supply, why don't things seem to improve, if not each night, then at least every few days? Is it because he needs a little more milk each day, and it is never quite enough so he needs to stimulate a bit more? if this is true then will this ever stop (I know it does because people have told me it does, but don't understand how if he will always be getting bigger and therefore need more milk)? Many thanks.

Ok, well the first thing that is important to remember is that there's no such thing as being "empty". Boobs never run out of milk.

Also with regards the cluster feeding, I found that it started to get better after about 8 weeks. Then every now and again it would start up for a few days before settling down again when my DD went through a growth spurt.

And things ARE getting better by the very proof that your DS is gaining weight.

thanks show - hoping it will get a bit better soon because I would really like to put DS1 to bed sometimes !

I can see why you're confused - we often explain periods of very frequent feeding in terms of growth spurts lasting a few days. But early prolonged cluster feeding isn't just about growth spurts - the baby is growing at a terrific rate right now and needs loads of calories to do that!

One reason why feeds tend to reduce in frequency over time is because the baby's growth rate slows down.

Hope that makes sense.

Hi smk - I think we've "chatted" before as I'm at pretty much the same stage as you with my 6 week DD and the frenzied cluster feeding.

I found that I was making myself hole up with her from 4pm onwards because that is her "bad time", so I would avoid doing anything else except feed feed feed. However, having received some reassurance on here that her not feeding constantly every evening would not be bad for her growth nor my supply, I have now started putting in some distraction techniques to our evening to stop her from feeding nonstop. So for example our evening might be:
5pm - walk in the park (pushing pram over lots of bumpy ground to stop her crying!)
6pm - bath
6:30 - big long feed
7:30 - put her in stretchy sling while I get dinner ready and eat dinner - she often falls asleep on and off in the sling and is quite content in it
9 - give to DH for cuddles/bouncing on knee/whatever he can do to prevent the crying
9:45 - big long feed then down to bed for both of us

Not saying this is what you should do, nor suggesting it as any kind of routine to follow, but it's made a massive difference to the dreaded cluster feeding evenings. Giving her something else to do instead of crying or feeding has meant that when I do feed her, she has "proper" feeds instead of those coming on and off and getting upset feeds that we were having. It's still a labour intensive evening, but I'm hoping that one day she'll just decide that going in the Moses basket for a sleep after bathtime is really a rather jubbly idea...

I have no idea if this is the right thing you should do with a baby this age, but it's saved my sanity and given me much more energy for the night feeds. She's still gaining weight so it can't be too wrong!

Good luck!

Also feed volumes/daily intake doesn't really go up with time as milk composition changes slightly though to meet baby's needs.

Kellymom on milk volume here is helpful.

Babies bf for reasons beyond hunger so the cluster feeding may not be stomach driven but head/body driven IYSWIM. There's nothing wrong with that though!

hi blushing, thank you so much for your post, it's really encouraging to know there is an alternative, i would never have thought of that. did you post a thread about the effect it might have on your supply etc / would you mind posting the link for me ? glad to hear that it's working well for you - very impressed that you manage to cook dinner !

Well I'm not saying it always works out like that, but it is much better than it was! On my phone at the moment but will find link for you in the morning

thanks :)

In my experience cluster feeding thru the evening was in fact an over tired & over stimulated little baby. DC1 did it until we realised that she wasn't actually hungry but doing it for comfort & trying desperately to get to sleep. We started doing similar to the other poster: making sure she had a couple of really good feeds late pm in a quiet place then swaddling her in a blacked out room & soothing to sleep. She then slept til at least 10/11 pm before needing another bf. DC2 has done the same but from 1 week old (also bf baby). OH & i have had almost every evening together relaxing since he was born! It's bliss. It's worth a try. HTH x

Meant to add, i also try to ensure DC has had lots of good feeds in the day and also id recommend introducing an early evening bath. Again in a quiet, calm, dimly lit place. Pref upstairs. Quiet Pillsbury helps mine too. U can get cds or those ferries that wind up (m&s i think do them)

Lullabies! Teddies! Sorry on phone feeding!

this is the link here (hope it works!)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1514848-preventing-cluster-feeding-wrong

thanks blushing - it did work :) we are in big cluster feeding territory tonight ! ds getting over a cold and think he is really going for it ! how are you getting on with your evening routines?

Oooh I know that feeling! We're doing ok. I seem to have got us down to two long feeds in an evening instead of the non-stop, which is nice. She's pretty much awake from 4 til 11 still, but we're becoming masters of distraction techniques to give her something to do other than feed! Last night it was the going to the Olympic torch relay - lots of noise and crowds = excellent distraction! We are no where near her going down to sleep in the early evening - don't know how this happens, but maybe one day she'll decide she wants to! Hope you survived your evening frenzy

thanks blushing and maples :) it lasted 5pm - 9.30 pm, then he slept until 1.45, so can't complain, it's mainly the crying that i find hard (he is difficult to distract, and I can't always feed him straight away as have 3yo DS too, and need to use the loo from time to time hehe! I think it doesn't help that he has had a cold, and only gained 3.5 oz in 6 days rather than his usual 6 oz - he is probably making up for that, but I will persist with BF, one day at a time (although the general knackeredness does make me dream of bottles of formula !) !

There's a theory that it's evolutionary cleverness on a new baby's part to cluster feed in the evenings. ie. they stay close to their mother so that as the nocturnal predators come out to hunt they're protected. A quiet, sleeping baby might well be left alone to the tigers!

Also, biologically speaking, prolactin (milk making hormone) levels are higher at night, so it can be useful to see cluster feeding as baby 'putting in the order for the next day'. Plus, as others have said, it might be comfort and there's nothing wrong with that!

I think most babies start to move out of it by about 12 weeks, which coincides with what littlemimosa said about baby being overtired and overstimulated - babies tend to start to get more obvious about what time bedtime should be at about 12 weeks too then it all goes out the window the next week for teething/illness/hot weather/growth spurt etc

All credit to you smk for coping so well with. 2 dc! I'm always really conscious how much I should be making to most of this time with dd when it's only her I have to worry about! Everyone always says that your second dc will cry more!

Cluster feeding at night is also a way of storing reserves for the night time sleep. My DS cluster feeds then sleeps from 9-3 or 4.

sorry ladies for not replying sooner, feels like one long cluster over the last few days ! Also DS1 doesn't leave me much time to tyoin ! Thank you so much for your rpleies. I really hope things settle down a bit soon, finding things rather difficult with woorrying about whether he is getting enough, esp as he has had another cold.