BF DS, 25 days old, strange feeding behaviour, please help....

[smk84]

Hi, my DS is 25 days old, BF, gaining weight and is having what looks like a minor posterior tongue tie snipped on Tuesday. Over the past week he has been behaving very strangely during some feeds. Last night, he was on my RHS, took the initial let down, then spent the next 45 mins sort of nibbling on me. He did take a bit more milk, but there were hardly any swallows and he was certainly not sucking effectively (I have checked the Jack Newman site, and normally he will suck strongly for a while, then tail off as the feed goes on, but continue swallowing, all be it at a slower rate, until the end). During the feed, he seemed to be falling to sleep, his eyes roll and he sometimes twitches, and sometimes he will smile as if he has wind and then suck back on again. I am pretty sure the latch was fine (have had it checked lots of times by various people). He did settle to sleep after this feed, but it was really weird behaviour, and he did it again this morning, only this time was very upset afterwards (I had to take him off as he had been on 20 mins, not really taken anything, and we had to go out !). I noticed him doing the same thing the other day and he later pooed, but there is no sign of a poo at the moment.The part about it that concerns me is that he is normally sort of ?due? the feed (he had taken a good feed prior to doing this each time, but has then had a gap, and he would normally then take a bit more before going to sleep). Any ideas? Is is suckling to relieve wind? Wanting to suck to sleep? Could it be to do with his tongue tie? Any help gratefully appreciated as it does worry me ! p.s. this happened at 11 am, since then , he has only taken 5 or 10 minute feeds, and it doesn?t feel like he is feeding properly or draining the breast. He has pulled off after 5 minutes and cried really hard, as if he is in pain with wind (he?s going red and grunting, then screaming). It?s really upsetting me  and I am worries about how it will affect my supply with him not feeding properly for such a length of time. Thank you.

p.s. have been having difficulties latching him on this p.m.- he doesn't seem to be opening his mouth properly, and keeps turning away. He often turns away and takes a few attempts to open wide before I put him on, but this p.m. he is going a bit red and squirming and then screaming rather than going on. he is not bringing up any burps but perhaps has bottom wind. We have been trying infacol for the past 24 hours, perhaps it's making things worse? We have encountered and overcome so many problems, but I am just finding BF so upsetting and hard work :(

Constipation maybe????

nanny do they get constipated if bf? he last went on thu, but he only seems to go about every 4 days. trying massage but can i help any other way?

My daughter used to do similar in the evenings, pretty much every evening for most of her first 12 weeks. I really sympathise.
For us, we found it was something we just had to put up with. Sometimes it seemed like trapped wind, sometimes like she was desperately hungry, sometimes like she was upset about something (no idea what) and wanted to comfort suck, sometimes it seemed like she had gotten overstimulated and she just needed to suckle to make herself feel safe. Basically you name, it seemed possible, and we never came up with a real answer. Eventually she just grew out of it and little by little it became easier.

I used to spend the whole evening (like 6pm-10pm) with the baby sucking (i wouldn't say 'feeding', as it was clear she wasn't all the time). Sometimes she would make quite 'chomping' sucks which i found really uncomfortable, despite being able to latch on perfectly well during the day time when she wasn't in the crazy mood. I found it really hard and draining and sometimes quite uncomfortable physically. My husband was able to give me a bit of a break by putting the baby in the sling and taking her round the block for a walk. It seemed the only thing other than my boobs which would calm her. I don't know if it would work for you?

We found infacol seemed to make it worse as it made the gas into such a big bubble she seemed to find it even more uncomfortable to bring it up. Gripe water seemed to help a bit, but it was a real battle to get it in.

The NCT breastfeeding line was really helpful when we needed a bit of support 0300 330 0771 (7 days a week, 8am-10pm). Is there a breastfeeding cafe near you or some peer support through the children's centre etc? We didn't go at the time (though i wish now that we had- i bet it would have made me feel alot better).

You are doing so well- day 25 is no mean feat. It may not feel like it, but you may already find your hardest BF days are already behind you. You should be so proud of yourself for how well you are doing at something that is not bringing you a whole lot of joy right now. What small thing can you look forward to tomorrow as a treat for getting this far? eg, nice uninterrupted bath with someone taking the baby out for a walk while you have it so you don't have to hear any crying! Even 15 min just for you might make a big difference to how you feel about it all.

Really hope you are feeling a little better. Hang on in there! Nag the BF experts in your area again and again to help and support you until you feel more in control with it all.

Have you tried swapping sides when he stops feeding effectively?

Tongue tie can make babies behave like this.

They fall asleep at the breast after a few minutes because it is such hard work for them.

The poor latch (no matter how many people say it looks good, they can't see what is going on inside the mouth) can mean a lot of air is being taken in, hence the windiness.

Breast refusal is common with tt babies because sometimes the suck/swallow/breathe rhythm is interrupted by the incorrect tongue action. Babies have a strong survival instinct and if they experience compromised breathing at the breast, it can put them off.

He may be getting milk at first because it is easier to extract from the breast, and once he has got what he can get, the suckling becomes ineffective with the incorrect tongue movement.

I hope the snip on tuesday helps matters for you. It may take some time for him to learn how to use his new tongue, so don't expect it to be an instant fix (although it can be for some!)

Hi smk
Agree with Mawbroon on the tt front. I found it was a good 2 weeks before nursing was pain free, but all ds windy symtoms stopped, he nursed for comfort instead of a 5 min power feed. After the snip What worked for me was back to basics, skin to skin and bio nursing position. We had to learn how to use tongue and exagerrated latch helped with that.

If you would like some more tt advice there is a really good group on facebook, Tongue Tie Babies Support Group. There are a number of ibclc's on it who specialise in tt babies and also lots of mums in the same boat as yourself.

Thank you.
Ali - thank you so much for sharing your experience. It helps to know this can be 'normal behaviour'.
Rubirosa - yes I do this in the evenings if he is cluster feeding, but have been told by feeding midwife to let him end the feeds at other times, so he can get hindmilk.
Mawbroon - thanks again, I have just tried to join the facebook group. The strange thing is that some feeds are absolutely fine on both sides, and we have unpredictable bad ones, particularly on the left. The latch on the left hasn't felt right since this morning and he seems to get the initial let down then not swallow at all and start to fall asleep very early - so getting worried about my supply. It does feel like his tongue, or something, is over the end of my nipple. The last time this happened was about 10 days ago though.
His tongue tie looks so small - do you think that with it being so small that having it snipped will mean he has to re-learn the whole technique? I seem to worry about everything at the moment but taking steps backwards really worries me !

If he's stopped swallowing then I would say that is "ending the feed"? 45 minutes of nibbling seems a bit pointless when he could be getting more milk from the other side - you can always swap him back again once he has stopped feeding properly on the second side. If you're feeding frequently from both sides then he will be getting lots of fatty milk, so personally I wouldn't worry too much about that.

nearly ready - thank you , what is exaggerated latch?

i have just googled it - looks very difficult ! i read that it can help if your baby keeps his top lip in (mine does lots of the time)