How would you approach this? HV!

[StarlightWithAsteroid]

Had HV visit for first time since Ds born. She said she was a student HV.

She was lovely. Really lovely. Gave us lots of helpful information on services in the area as we've just moved. She also appeared a little bit nervous perhaps. She asked about the birth etc. did her screening questions - whatever and showed genuine interest in the homebirth (not common here) commenting that she'd had a c/s whilst adding quickly that she wasn't too posh to push.

She was also genuinely interested (but unable to help) with my attempts to get a freezer installed in the local children's centre for me to store donated BM stating that she'd never come across that before and offered to do some research.

Anyway, when it came to the feeding discussion she went all bonkers.

She asked me how long he was going in between feeds, which really isn't long. She offered a solution to something I hadn't actually defined as a problem and suggested I stop switch feeding and keep him on one breast longer. She said that the flutter-feeding when he appears to be asleep should be continued as long as possible because that is a sign that he is 'licking' the creamier milk rather than 'drinking' the liquid. I was too stunned to reply anything other than 'okay'.

She also recommended that shoukd I have a problem feeding to try and attend the HV bfing clinic rather than a BFC one, as HVs can offer a more rounded support and advice.

Sorry, my question is: She is coming back in 8 weeks or so. What can I do to help ensure in even a very small way, that she becomes a bit more informed.

It seems a bit ridiculous my expressing off loads of milk to donate whilst at the same time going along with her well-meant sabotage of bfing.

Unless someone agrees with her. Tbh it did throw me and I started to wonder.

Face-palm...

If you have the time and energy (!) do write to your local head of service to express concern about such twattery. I've managed to get 2 HVs sent off for Unicef training by making a nuisance of myself. We've got to tackle this almost wholesale bobbins pedalling by HV's and their ilk one misinformed dillweed at a time!

If she's lovely, and enthusiastic as you say, maybe you could give her some books to read? Food of love, that sort of thing?

Well I did think about that, but then thought that she isn't an individual. She's a student in a system that is apparently training her that HV bfing advice is superior to bfcs.

Is she going to pay attention to someone who must be in the opposing camp? And surely, if she knows so much about the BFC groups she therefore has access to quality information iyswim.

I'm not sure this is a knowledge issue but an attitude one, and not hers as she is just a student presumably being told what to do!?

Urgh, it's do worrying when supposed health professionals give incorrect advice. I had the same thing in hospital from a midwife..

Offering one breast per feed is called block feeding and is something recommended to people with oversupply, not appropriate for your situation. It's normal for baby to feed, sleep a bit then want the other side, or go straight on to the other side.

I'm sure you know all this anyway. I would try and make someone aware of what she said as giving the wrong info can be so damaging to mums that aren't as 'in the know'.

She might pay attention. She probably believes it because that is what she was taught by her "superiors". If you can give her some good accessible, referenced info maybe she will take it on board, and attack the system from within :)

If you had diabetes and your GP said you should eat what you like when you like as it didn't matter - that's what insulin is for, or if you had anaemia and were breathless as a result and the GP prescribe an inhaler rather than iron supplements, would you complain to the practice manager?

This is the same thing - she has given you incorrect and damaging 'information' about a biological process, there is no room for interpretation or bias. If she doesn't understand why what she is explaining to mothers is wrong then she needs more training (and some limitation awareness!) asap before she scuppers anyone with less knowledge than your's breastfeeding.

Agree with Truth - if no one tells her, she won't know. HVs work on their own a lot and I have come across many who tell mothers the same old rubbish for years and years.

This thing about flutter feeding meaning the baby is getting the cream is something some HVs are going about saying, and it comes from somewhere, and I don't suppose it is harmful but it does not ring true for me. More damaging potentially, is the suggestion that you deliberately feed on one side only.

There was no need for her to ask how long he is going between feeds, either - she should stop asking that, unless the mother raises it as an issue, or if there seems to be some sort of problem.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep thinking because it is important to me. As I said, it is a bit daft me making the effort to express and donate whilst shying away from an arguably easier contribution.

My baby DOES feed a lot and this is reflected in his 6oz weight gain in the 12 days since birth. I'm alright with that. It isn't a problem I need help with. It isn't even something I woukd have mentioned if she hadn't but I wonder if it is part of the assessment of whether the mother is coping i.e her perception of how often the baby feeds as being too much for her etc.?

As a BF novice I would have taken her advice as I know no different (until I come on MN of course) - can I ask then what does the flutter feeding mean?

Actually there was something else. I probably shouldn't have told the truth perhaps although there must be others that answer similarly.

She asked if the milk had come in. I replied yes. She asked how I knew and whether my breasts felt full. I replied truthfully that my breasts don't ever feel full. This added to the 'solution' of making sure baby got the cream by sticking more to one side at a time.

(they have only once felt full in my 3 kids worth of bfing, when my DH took my 1st away at 8 months for a BH weekend and I went out shopping in the afternoon of day 2, and I ended up in M&S loo trying to bf myself because I was so rock hard I couldn't even hand express - which incidentally worked).

Swivel, you might have forgotten it if you're not currently feeding but it is kin of when they have fallen asleep latched on and do very light mouth movements and stroke your nipple lightly with their tongue. I think it is the same as when they are off the breast and dreaming of milk, you see their mouths move in a small munching way.

Urgh this is like when i was sat on the maternity ward listening to midwife instructing mums to feed every four hours one breast each feed. When they all got engorged and were all hand expressing.

I was on dd2, and fed on demand. This girl looked at me wide eyed asking why i'd fed both boobs in one sitting, that my dd hadnt cried and i hadnt waited four hours. I just muttered that i thought she was hungry as the midwife shot me a look.

I let dd suckle as my milk came in and didnt get engorged. There were 7 other women in the ward and all of them went home feeding four hourly off one boob at a time. I saw one of them at the injections and she'd said 'oh i didnt carry on, dd was sooo hungry she just wanted to feed all the time so i dont think i was making enough.'

That made me so sad. Are midwives/hv too scared to say actually you can expect baby to stay on for hours and hours!

Starlight you know more about bf than her.

She is well-meaning, but she will undermine women's bf, and actually undermine her own help and work.....next time she tells you anything you are gonna wonder if she knows fully what she is talking about :(

Please take it further - it does not have to be a horrible thing to do, just sightly awkward and it is the right thing :)

Sorry to jump in here now, but this thing about the 'fluttery sucks' has come up before at groups.... and I'm still confused!

I've been reading Gill Rapley's 'Baby-led breastfeeding' book and it says:

"Her chin may quiver slightly, followed by a short flurry of quick sucks (called flutter sucking), and another long pause. It's tempting to assume, when you see this, that she is just sucking for comfort and that you should take her off the breast but this is when you milk is at its creamiest. She's still getting food- in small amounts but packed full of calories."

A mother asked me about this the other day, and I did kind of tell her the above.

Was this the wrong this to do? [mortified]

This is good about full feeling :)

mythnomore.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/breasts-feeling-full-good-thing-myth.html

I wouldn't worry
It doesnt take long for new mums to realise hv are to be agreed with, then ignored

I don't think that's true Svrider, I think most people (understandably!) assume that the person who is employed to come out offering help and support after birth might know a little about breastfeeding and what they're talking about. If you don't know about breastfeeding beforehand, some of the myths can sound downright logical.

Hi,
I have just completed my breast feeding peer supporter training & whilst I am certainly no expert I'd just like to say that regarding the 'flutter feeding' that is being described, our lactation consultant who has been leading the training did say the same sort of thing..... leave baby on for as long as possible whilst they're doing this flicking movement with their tongue as this is what draws down the last of the creamier milk left in the breast. She likened it to drinking a thick shake through a straw, and wiggling the straw about to get the last bit out.

This is what the Unicef babyfriendly website says:

Towards the end of the period of feeding, the
baby may suck less deeply. Feeding may look and
feel less vigorous, with the baby ?flutter sucking?.
Swallowing may be less frequent. Provided there
has been a period of deep sucks and frequent
swallows, this indicates that the baby is now
getting lower-volume fat-rich milk. This is milk
that the baby needs to grow.

tiktok- you seem to be sceptical about this. Can I ask why?

If that's how they describe flutter sucking, I am not sceptical....slower sucking and less frequent swallows is consistent with getting fattier milk. But I would not describe that as 'flutter' sucking, which to me implies something else more, er, fluttery :)

Oh lovely another HV bashing thread

can i just say that we are given the baby friendly initiative lectures (2 days), but we often see other things in practice.
Its not easy to get everyone to adhere to a textbook perfect way of feeding, similarly everyones birth is different, they are given different advice, or different choices.
Im not saying the information is right, but there is so much it out there and everyone is singing from different hymn sheets

Sorry miss there's no excuse for a HV to give totally wrong advice on breastfeeding. What this HV said is plain wrong and it's disgraceful full stop.

I fed dd1 on one breast every time she wanted a feed - she's four now and that was the advice at the time. TBH it worked well and I fed successfully with no issues until 9 months when I lost my milk due to me being very ill. With dtds it wasn't really an issue as they had a boob each.