Help ! Whats going on ?

[redstarfalling]

Really worried now. Mixed fed dd 2 years ago but have meneged to exclusively bf ds - now 23 weeks. Introduced a bottle feed of ebm or formula depending on how expressing went between 11pm an 2 am depending on when ds woke up about 5 weeks ago - everything fine. Bragged on here about how ds fed 6am, 10.30, 14.30, 7pm plus dream feed then sometimes once or twice bf in night. Two weeks ago went mad erratic feeding day and night decided to try solids loves it but takes really small amounts and feeding resumed a normal pattern. Feeds had become about 4 minutes each side except 7pm feed which took about 20 - 25 minutes of constant feeding which I assumed was ds tanking up for night. Always had good wet nappies poo's at least once a day ( classic bf ones - sorry if tmi )Now for the last week I have to force the boob on ds and he takes about 1 1.5 mins sometimes only on one side constantly pulling off to see whats going on so now have to feed hidden away in dark room can't feed in public as keeps ripping my nipple off and even if dh is in room keeps pulling off to give him huge smiles. He's never demanded feeds, I've always had to offer a feed which as i say has taken willingly up to date. I have taken solids right back to nearly nothing always offer boob first. Still having wet nappies but poo really much more formed. Have even tried a few days solid free but still only taking about 2 mins per feed albeit more frequently. To add to the problem ds started afternoons at nursery this week to go full time next week. Didnt anticipate a problem as just planned on changing 14.30 feed to a formula bottle this week then next week am feed the same. He took 7 oz yesterday at nursery in two seperate feeds in the afternoon so am not too worried but I wanted to carry on first and last feeds when back at work. This morning he had his 1 minute one side at 6am in short bursts. What i'm worried about is is this Ok What should I do differently. Is this remotely normal ?? Should I just carry on, change mid morning and afternoon to bottles and see if it sorts out ? It's just this 6am feed. DD always loved it was ravenous and it was probably her biggest feed so feeling really spooke. Also really wooried that supply is goin down in am as boobs not felt at all full this am and as not had much of a feed will it diminish further therefore scuppering chances of continuing this feed ? AAAAAArrrrrrggggg Have got so far really don't want it all crashing down now. Thanks in advance for any sympathy, support, advice...............may not be able to log on till tonight though so not being ignorant if don't respond immediately.

RSF

Sorry about all typos - must be really stressed !

Can't give you much help. All I know is you've described my DS2, he does much the same as your DS! Including the popping on and off the boob trying to get his Daddys attention! We always joke he's trying to let him know that he sees more of them than DH! Although I've been succesful with breast feeding, I certainly don't think I've done it right as I let both DSs feed when they felt like it, not at a set time IYSWIM.
I wouldn't worry too much, as long as he has wet nappies.
Sorry I'm not much help, but I just wanted to say you're very similar to me and my DS!

Thanks mumatuk It's just nice to know he's not completely weird ! The only reson he feeds at set times is he never demands a feed by crying, rooting eating his hands , anything....maybe he is weird !

My DS just takes any opportunity to get a suckle! "Oh I've had my nappy changed, must comfort myself with booby milk" or"Oh I've had a bath, must comfort myself now I'm all clean, it took me ages to bake the weetabix / food on"
It's taken me ages to persaude him on to food, he was 6 months before he'd have anything! DS1 started about 3.5 / 4 months on baby rice or porridge etc. I just think DS2 is a boobs man!

redstar...breastfeediing is a robust, reliable 'system' once it's established. It can easily withstand a baby taking less time and less frequent feeds without disappearing.

However, I think you are right to slow down solids and changing to bottles - 2 bottles of 7 ounces in a single afternoon are going to fill any 6 mth old right up to the brim . The nursery need to be told this is too much - there is a tendency in some nurserys to assume that any squeaks from a baby mean they have to be pumped up with milk - sorry, my observations only, maybe it's not true eveywhere, but in any case, 2 x 7 ounces is far more than an otherwise bf baby is going to need.

rsf, my ds id nearly 7m and we began weaning at just after 5m. All was going great, he steadily progrewssed to 3 meals a day and then on saturday i felt he hardly took much milk from me at all, i panicked re the iron intake etc so reduced his lunch solid so he'd have more milk, which he did, but then last night he woke at 1am and 3am!!! I feel the same as you-aaarghh. Now I'm also worrying that my supply has reduced due to him increasing his solids, my boobs feel really soft and i'm starting to think there's nothing in there! About a month ago I began to express around5-7 oz on a morning while he had the other side as he'd been falling asleep on me at his last feed and not geting enough for the night, he rarely falls asleep on a bottle, this worked well and he'll take all of the ebm in a bottle then even a bit more from me sometimes, but my concern now is, has my evening production been slowed down by this effect!? Should I be expressing as much as poss and freeze it just to get my production (supply on demand idea) back up again?!

By writing this drivvle, (sp) all I mean is I'm panicking too and don't think either of us should be. Hope you think I'm being supportive rather than hijacking your thread! Good luck I'll keep checking this one to see how you get on.

Redstarfalling my dd is the same she suddenly went from feeding for 30/45 mins to max 15 minutes, sometimes only 5, and sometimes only 1 side. I tried cutting down her solids but it made no difference (I have, shock, horror been weaning since 18 weeks - she's now 6 months). She was feeding twice a night (6 feeds in 24 hours roughly) until recently when I upped her solids. Now she sleeps through (well fingers crossed, has done last three nights) but still wakes up and quite often just has one boob for five minutes even after last feed at 6.30pm. She seems to be getting enough and putting on weight (I do put formula in her food though) as a very happy baby. Strangely my boobs seems to be getting even bigger so she MUST be taking enough I assume! Think your ds will be ok.

Thanks everybody for replying. Tiktok - sorry I meant he took 7oz as a 3oz at 14.00 and a 4oz at 17.00 without solids to try to get milk in him. Same thing again though today He took only about a minute on one side at 10.30 after a very short feed of about the same at 6am. I did notice though when he pulled off intermittantly that milk was spraying everywhere. Could this be the problem? We offered him formula after due to the short feed and not having solids and he threw a paddy and only took an ounce. Could he really get enough milk in such a short feed ?
Any suggestions around reducing the solids and when to give the milk therefore ? Sorry abouit all the questions just really taken aback by the sudden disruption and really worried that the end could be nigh

Help ! Even more worried now. Picked ds up from nursery and he's only had 2oz at 14.00 and 1oz at 17.00 since 10.30. his nappy was changed at 14.00 and feels like its only had one wee in it. He's just had a massive half hour feed from me though at 18.30. Is it time to panic yet or just stay mildly concerned ?

Have decided to stay mildly concerned as this morning ds nappy was so full of wee with my 7pm breastfeed and 5oz formula at 1am that I couldn't roll it and fasten it as I do ( disposable nappy habit !) Taken okish feed at 6am but refused now so will wait and see. Brambalina, must admit I am expressing at all missed/small feeds to keep supply up / stockpile milk. Hey Ho kids ! Who'd have 'em!?

OK, back to really worried now. Thurs and Fri DS refused bottle of formula at nursery in the afternoon, so from 11am having a big breastfeed hjad nothing except some vegetables with 2oz mixed in after refusin g his bottle and some water till 7pm breastfeed. Now its weekend have tried bottle of formula again - refused. Also refused dream feed last night and night before. Goes full time on Monday. He's only 24 weeks old. What do I do ? This is absoloutly worrying me stupid. I will continue with 6am and 7pm bf as long as needed but is it safe for a baby so young to go without formula for 12 hours except in food ? Would really appreciate help advice before monday. TIA

RSF

Forgot to say have cut right back on solids to very small amount at 9am and 3.30pm anything we can get formula in. Will also carry on night feeds if I have to but can't do this indefinately with working long days 5 days week. Expressing is also an issue at work even if he would take ebm which he wouldn't two days ago.

Sorry, red, I am really confused about your situation.

I can't keep all the info on the thread in my head and I don't understand why he is having formula or veg at home....isn't it just at nursery he needs formula? Sorry if you have answered this. The confusion may explain why no one is responding to your posts :(

I think it will help you to call one of the bf helplines, where you can have a dialogue with someone.

Sorry Tiktok, I'm not really mad. Just really worried. DS has been bf exclusively untill about 6 weeks ago when we introduced a formula bottle feed at 11pmish. We started solids in small amounts about three weeks ago now. His feeding was fine. Breast 6am, 11am,14.30am and 7pm with the 11pm dream feed. Perfectly settled last weekend we dropped the breastfeed at 14.30 for formula as he was starting nursery this week afternoons only, he point blank refused this feed and only took a feed (bottle) at this feed on monday at nursery but the rest of the week has refused a 14.30 bottle feed from them. He was reluctant to take his 11 am breast feed monday and tuesday but took this well for the rest of the week. He starts nursery full time on monday so today we tried to change his 11am feed to formula too in anticipation for monday and he has refuseed this today as well. He has also refused his bottle 11pm feed for the last two nights. So is only getting a 6am and 7pm feed with his 11am feed which I will not be able to give on monday as I am back at work full time. What concerns me is he's only 24 weeks and despite dropping most of his solids is still refusing formula and ebm in a bottle despite being fine with this for the past six months when given. I don't know if a 24 week old baby will get enough if I do big feeds am and pm and nursery give as much formula as possible in solid food at nursesry with water to drink. Does that make any more sense ? Sorry to sound like I'm losing tyhe plot but I didn't expect ds to take such little milk and really am getting very worried especially as I don't know how much he gets at 6am and 7pm. i suppose i naively expected a really smooth transition which hasn't happened

Thanks, red!

I still don't understand why he is having formula at home, though (apart from the well-established 11 pm bottle).

I suppose it is because you are trying to get him established on a bottle at other times, yes? because that is when he will have a bottle at nursery? I don't see the point of this, though. He can bf when he is with you, can't he?

Now, I don't know you, don't know your baby, I'm not a child psycholgist blah blah blah.....but with those disclaimers, I believe, and my experience tells me, that babies are trying to tell us something when they refuse their feeds consistently.

In your case, could your baby be trying to say he is going through too many changes at once? That nursery is a change, and the feeding regime you are putting in place is a change (solids and bottles) and he is unsettled by it?

I don't think you would lose anything by just offering him breastfeeds at home, and forgetting about the bottle at home - totally. He is capable of taking a bottle at nursery, so you don't need to be concerned about his 'skills'. How about just going back to full bf at home (yes, and ditching the solids for the moment, or leaving it to the nursery to do) ...this will take a few days of luring him back to the breast, with skin to skin and so on.

Just an idea - I do think you'd benefit from calling someone, too.

TikTok thank you. I think you are dead right. Too much too soon - should have thought much more about this. Anyway we're going to give milk only a bash. We are stopping his solids, going back to milk and see what happens. Can I just ask one more stupid question ? If I feed 6am, 7pm and 11pm monday to friday, will I be able to feed 11am and 3pm saturday and sunday ? Will feeds just take longer and will this mean my 7pm supply will fall ? And yes we only introduced the formula to try and establish it for nursery times - didn't know i would be able to pick up the day feeds at weekends. Thanks Tik Tok

A this stage of well-established bf, you can do what you like! Many women go back to more bf at weekends and on days off - they do feel the difference at first, but as time goes on this tends to wear off. You might need to express to comfort on the nursery days esp at first.

Bf doesn't work like clockwork with regularised production. It works according to what the baby does.

This makes it easy to increase and decrease production, though (as I say) there will be differences on the days after 'change over'.

Good luck :)

Thanks for all your help TikTok. Am going to give it a go. keep it all crossed for me !

RSF