Can they "make you" have baby weighed when they choose?

[thunksheadontable]

Ds2 is 4-5 days old (born Monday tea-time).

Yesterday, a student midwife came to weigh him and he has allegedly lost a pound or 9.8% of birth weight. I am a bit dubious that this is true as he really doesn't look as though he has lost much in pics etc and also he was supposed to be 9lbs 3 when born but he seemed much lighter than his brother who was 8lbs 14 and everyone says this, so wondering about scales.

Story is that he is feeding well, great appetite and very excited to get on breast, calm and happy when feeding and after feeding, good colour, nice plump cheeks, good tone and hydration etc but not getting the "right" number of nappies - in the last 24 hours has had 4 wet, 5 dirty but dirty ones haven't made full transition to yellow poop and are still a bit greeny (but no mec) and, of course, this weight stuff.

To cut a long story short, we had terrible trouble with ds1 feeding but everything seemed totally different with this little one.. ds1 didn't feed, was grumpy, screamy, sunken, skinny, wouldn't latch on, would latch on/latch off, was sleepy etc so a totally different picture. He didn't do any poo at all after the mec ones for nearly two weeks. It was extremely stressful and we were very worried about him. I was expressing and refeeding every two hours around the clock, didn't sleep for weeks and basically got PND/OCD and was in a very bad place with sleep deprivation etc.

When the midwife came yesterday, I FREAKED. I didn't mean to but I did. I have just started antidepressants so was jittery anyway but I literally went upstairs and locked myself in my room and couldn't even look at ds because I felt I had failed him and that I just couldn't do it to a child again, I just sort of went out of myself. As a consequence, yesterday was a very poor day's feeding but I sorted myself out by night time and fed him all night long...

They are coming back to weigh him tomorrow and I have said I don't want them to, as there won't be any difference in that time frame and explained why.. I have taken positioning help from the maternity assistant today and a health visitor yesteday and been to the perinatal mental health psych who really feels that the weighing and counting of nappies etc is not great for me givne that baby actually seems to be doing well other than on the scales but is maybe a day or so behind schedule.

Yet midwifery team are saying that we're not "allowed" not to weigh him, that we would need "permission" from a paediatrician... which I would understand if he was presenting like ds1, but he's not.. at all. Everyone has said his colour is good etc and that he looks like he is doing well.. I'm not sure what the benefit is in weighing him tomorrow in the absence of any change in presentation etc when there's been no time to actually even see if more frequent feeding would help. Tomorrow they will want to move to expressing/refeeding 2 hourly and I just am not in a fit state to do this mentally right now.

Thoughts? Am I being unreasonable? Are they? I am happy to have him weighed in a few days and/or if they feel there is any real risk to him - but it doesn't seem to me that there is and I am doing everything they ask, so why not give this a few days? I am worried I will go into a total tailspin if they weigh him and there's been no change...

Oh dear you poor thing

Not much advice to give other than that if it were me and I were confident he is well and feeding well, I'd probably nod sagely in agreement and then just do my own thing when they'd left!
Can your dp be there when they come to explain all this? How you are I mean, and the effect on you of all this pressure?

It sounds to me that your DS is doing wonderfully. I really think you should trust your instincts, especially as you have experience with your first son of what it 'looks like' when feeding isn't going perfectly.

If the mw insist on weighing him, listen to everything they say, agree with them, show them out the door and then do whatever YOU think is right for your baby, all the while repeating "i am a fab mum, I know my son best.....I am a fab mum, I know my son best....." :)

The mw made me take my 2.5 week old ds to hospital for blood tests as they were concerned about his jaundice (despite the fact it was getting considerably better, he was ebf so it takes longer to clear up, and he was born in Nov when there was no sunlight!). We were in the hospital for 6 hours surrounded by very sick people, the doctors couldn't believe the mw had sent us in but had to do the blood test because the mw had referred him, and my poor little boy was prodded and poked a lot before having a (tiny) test tube of blood squeezed out through his heel :( I wish I had the confidence in my own instincts to tell the mw where to go before putting my son through all that :)

good luck and do not beat yourself up x

My DS had lost 10% at day 5 and was reweighed at day 7 -the midwife told me it was to make sure he hadn't lost any more weight-rather than to try and see if he had gained as they didn't expect him to have done. DS was not content though so we were in a completely different situation. I can completely understand where your coming from-if I ever have another baby after massive feeding problems with the first I know feeding/weight/sodding feeding & poo logs that no one ever looks at will be difficult and a flash point for me.

The thing is they don't seem to have any real concerns other than this one weight and I really wonder if it's down to inaccurate recording of the birth weight. We declined consent for further weighing until Day 10 and agreed it with two midwives yesterday and guess what happened today? A midwife arrived at the door with a weighing scales to see if they could change my mind.

Now, if there was any reason they had to have concern other than this weight which was not even on the same scale and was done by a student etc, I would not have an issue.. but my milk only came in yesterday and everything seems to be going well. There has been someone at the house every day and here are their notes:

Day 1- Baby alert and well flexed. No signs of jaundice. Has passed meconium x 3 and urine x 2. Eyes and mouth clear. Breastfeeding observed. Good positioning and attachment.
Day 2- Baby has good colour. Passing urine and stools as expected for age. No concerns.
Day 3 ? Baby breastfeeding well. Good positioning and attachment. Pink and hydrated. No visible jaundice. Eyes nose and mouth clear. Changing stools. Has had more than 5 today and urine more than 3.
Day 4 ? Green/yellow stools 4-5. Urine 4 with ?one example of urates 24 hours ago. No visible jaundice. Alert and calm. Effective sucking patterns during feeds.
Day 5 ? Good colour and muscle tone. No signs of jaundice. Yellow dirty nappies x 2 plus one green today so far (Assessment at 11.30am). Eyes and mouth clear. Breastfeeding observed ? good positioning and attachment and suckling well for 15 minutes.

So where?s the concern here? Really? That he is a day behind schedule as my milk hadn?t come in? What if the weighing scales weren?t even right? I am going to complain on Monday and ask to be discharged to Health Visitor or GP care because this is just bloody ridiculous! I have just started on antidepressants so am a bit jittery and am very keen to avoid anything like this increasing anxiety... it was really worrying the extent to which my anxiety spiked but they don't seem to care less about this. The midwife today said something like "of course your health is important as well" but they don't seem to get that if I do have a recurrence of PND/OCD that will directly affect my baby just as much as me. Grrrrr. I really don't get it. It just seems totally OTT. The CPN is going to contact them and try and persuade them to just BACK OFF, had a meeting with psych and CPN and they were outraged.

You do not have to let them weigh your baby. If you have concerns - just weigh him yourself to keep an eye on things and check he is gaining. If the midwives are stressing you and telling you rubbish such as that you need permission to refuse to do things, they are not helping. So long as you monitoring him and go to the GP if there seems to be an issue, you are fine.

you don't have to let them weigh him.

they can't make you.

dd was also still doing transition poos at a week.

if you're worried, ask, but it sounds like he's fine, so tell them you don't want him weighed.
have you got a DP who can tell them it's making you anxious?
if not, you could write it down in your notes why.

Thanks, I guessed as much.

The thing that really winds me up is that they KNOW I have perinatal OCD it is written all over my notes and I have a postnatal care plan written by the perinatal mental health team and she mentioned it today... and they actually said well if we weigh him and it makes you anxious you can always contact the psych team to chat to about it! When the psych team are saying this is not good for me and I shouldn't be put under this pressure at this point, that there are more risks than benefits to this sort of approach.

They just seem totally fixated on the idea that there was this weight change.. but honestly, I can't see that there actually has been. Dh says when he was weighed in hosp he was super active and the m/w was sort of holding him a bit so I bet it was incorrect. He was born at 5pmish on Monday so is just gone into day 6 and has now just changed to having a yellow poo after every feed and plenty heavy nappies today so literally it's just a delay with milk coming in of about a day and they can take a running jump. So cross that they would have listened to dh say all of this yesterday and send round someone with a scales today. I could feel the panic set in as soon as I saw it. I know it's irrational but it is where I'm at and I just don't see how this is supportive of breastfeeding at all!

Oh dear, the MWs sound like they don't have any understanding at all of your condition :( Have they bothered to talk with the psych department about this?

I can understand that the MWs would be concerned at weight loss but they should also be looking at the baby, and the mother! Scales can be wrong, as you've said.

Is there a BF group you can go to where you can get some proper support?

OP :( :(

You need someone fighting your corner. Are their any of the maternity HCPs you have seen that could be your consistent champion?

It does not sound that your baby is at risk, so no need for this urgent pressure - while weighing is a really useful tool in the early days it can be use badly with to much emphasis placed on it. Skilled and experienced midwives should understand this. You are also right in saying that birthweights may not be accurate. You could check the metric -imperial conversion yourself, as this is sometimes where errors occur.

I had a similar experience OP - ds failed to gain weight and was so unhappy and skinny etc, then dd lost 9.6% of bw and as soon as they started to tall about weight issues (she was very content) I felt the panic set in. It was awful even without the additional mental health issues. In the end it was one understanding Hv who took a holistic view and supported me while dd had slow weight gain which then picked up.

Hang in there and hold your ground.

Hold your ground! I was made to feel very guilty for not wanting to stay in hospital over night when LO was 3 days old and had lost weight.

He was weighed just before a feed, and just after he'd pooed, so literally had nothing in his stomach. By the time we got seen at the hospital, he'd had two full feeds, and as a result weighed more than he had at the home visit, but they still wanted me to stay in. I refused.
Everyone is so obsessed with numbers...you know that your baby is doing well, trust your instincts.

weight loss up to 10% within the first week is completely normal (see world health organisation guidleines on which midwifery practice is based). Your (i assume) full term, healthy, normal weight baby who is feeding well and behaving normally was within this limit. christ, it's not even jaundiced! your baby should be back to birthweight by 14 days. their practice is poor if they think there's a problem. end of. you do not have to consent to having your baby weighed, although personally I would let them do whatever they want and then crack on with what you're doing anyway, play the game and let them leave you alone. If I can work out how I'll post a link to the guidelines.

my 2nd baby didn't do a yellow poo till she was 11 days old. they're all different.

did they come today? what happened?

Hi, congratulaions!

The simple answer to your question is yes, if they fear for the safety of your baby they can contact socai services who will contact the police, who will get an emergency warrent and admit your child to hospital.
However they will look fuckin silly if the do this in your circumstances, therefore, no you do not have to let them into your house or anywhere near your baby!

It is astonishing how many women are put through this kind of unecessary trauma in the first few days of their babies life, it makes me so angry.

It is harmful to your milk supply if you are stressed, therefor they are endangering your child by interfering with their food supply!

I won't give you a blow by blow account of what hcp's put us therough when dd was born suffice to say she was / is a slow gainer, she fell of their bloody charts (off the page in fact) but is otherwise very healthy, bright eyed and bushy tailed, eats ravenously and never lies still. She's five meonths now and about 11p, i stopped letting them weigh her and now they all tel me shes doing great.
Just smile and nod and do your own thing!

OP, I wish I had know that you could refuse to have them weighed til day 10.

I was in a v similar situation to you with DD2 who lost 12% of birth weight by day 5. I wasn't worried though as she was a good weight and DD1 had done the same (but we escaped weigh in with her til day 7 due to snow). I am also fat so think this affects my babies who then "drop" to their true weight IYSWIM.

Anyway long story short, mw sent us to hospital and kept in for 2 nights as it was BH so no consultant. It was awful, aside from being pressured to switch to ff, I was away from DH & DD2 (hospital 3 hr round trip away).
DD2 had horrid blood tests, I was made to feed her every 2 hours so was exhausted (and we were on the childrens' ward with lots of really poorly children which was awful for the new mum hormones in me). Discharged straight away by consultant and on the follow up appointment was told that DD2 was lovely healthy and always had been.

It really colours my first memories of her and I struggled to get back on an even keel as my confidence was knocked-like you I felt I'd failed somehow. It was only by thinking that actually I had known best and their tests had confirmed that DD2 was perfect that I came to terms with it.

If I was in the situation again I'd refuse to go to hospital.

pignut, what you are saying is a bit misleading......might scare the OP :(

Yes, HCPs who fear for the safety of a baby can set in motion a sequence of events, but the answer to the OP's question is not 'yes' as refusal to have a baby weighed would not be seen as putting a baby in danger.

There is no automatic right for an HCP to weigh a baby ever - not at birth, not at 10 days, ever.

Weighing can be a useful clinical tool, but if parents don't want it to happen, it does not have to happen.

To clarify: refusal to have a baby weighed and no other cause for concern would not call into question the baby's safety.

If the baby's parents refused weighing, and also showed signs they were refusing medical care, and the baby was clearly ill or at risk of becoming so....yes, that might ring alarm bells.

I am not a social worker, or HCP, but I have worked with many over the years and have never heard any concern expressed about a baby solely because the baby was not being weighed.....which is not that uncommon anyway.

congratulations on your new baby.

it is difficult to stay calm when you are tired and stressed.

it is also therefore difficult to be assertive.

the positives are ; your baby is healthy
positoning and attaching well at breast
alert and keen to feed
settled between feeds
yellow stools
wet nappies

of course you can decline to have him weighed.

it seems obvious that the stress will affect you ability to relax and feel confident to nourish and nuture your baby.

it is disappointing that the midwives caring for you cannot seem to realise this.

i am a midwife

FirstUp, as a midwife, can you confirm my understanding, that this (refusal to have baby weighed) single thing would not be something that would alert social services?

this situation would not be something i would expect any health care prof to make a social services referral.

it doesn't sound like it even merits a paediatric referral.

it is a community midwife's 'bread and butter' !