Six weeks old - will she ever 'get' breastfeeding?

[Mikocat]

Sorry this is probably going to be long!

DD is nearly six weeks old now an mixed fed on EBM and formula.

Late in pregnancy I developed pre-eclampsia and was induced then ended up with an EMCS and lost a lot of blood.

When DD wouldn't breast feed straight away (she was very sleepy) MW in hospital told me that low blood sugar was a worry with babies born after pre-eclampsia and they needed to feed her, they took her away and gave her a bottle. I was still very out of it at this point. For the four days I was in hospital the midwives kept having to take her away and basically force-feed her formula because they were worried about her losing weight/low blood sugar. I kept trying to BF on my own with no success and no real support from the hospital staff, I got increasingly upset about my failure and the staff then started talking about possible PND and focussing on that rather than helping me with the source of my distress. I was glad to finally get home.

After I got home a BF counsellor came round and advised me to start pumping to get my milk going for DD or I would lose it. since then I have been expressing ever three hours (roughly) day and night and DD has been fed the results and topped up (her weight continued to be a problem for a few weeks - she is OK now) with formula. She is about 2/3 EBM to 1/3 formula now I would say.

Sadly all my attempts to get her to feed with the BF counsellor didn't work, she has a lot of the right instincts, she roots and gapes but when she gets the nipple doesn't really know what to do. Sometimes she sucks but not for long and then she drops off and gets distressed, sometimes screaming and kicking me, adding to both our upset! I keep trying, I know not as often as I should, I still have huge problems with pain after the CS, to the extent where I am in tears by the end of the day most days. As a result of this we havent been out to any support groups, although I know I should try and get out more, I can barely walk and DH has to work and can't run me about the whole time. (I don't drive)

Basically I'm wondering how long we can carry on? I always wanted to BF and imagined that I would and I'm desperate to do the best for my beautiful daughter, but is she ever going to get it if she hasn't yet? I don't know if she is confused, or lazy after the easiness of bottles, or what? I feel like a terrible lazy mother for not trying more than a couple of times a day, but as well as trying to fit it in around caring for her and the punishing schedule of expressing and feeding, the emotional impact of the failure leaves me drained. I feel such a high for those seconds where it seems like she is going to finally do it, but it never lasts more than a few seconds.

Sorry for the rambling, any words of wisdom, or similar experiences would be most welcome.

mikocat really sorry you're having this stress. I had similar difficulties with DD. Was v upset about it. Kept trying up to 6 weeks then bf counsellor, DH and I decided together that it wasn't ever going to work. I kept up the expressing for a while, even though it was miserable! I froze lots of milk. But eventually stopped as it was having such an effect on our quality of life. Result was that DD carried on having some of my milk, from the freezer, to 4 months. A friend has lasted longer!

At the time I felt a failure. But DD is now a delightful 3yo and I haven't given it a thought for ages. In hindsight I stressed over it too much.

Best of luck!

PS I forgot to say, congrats on having her!

Thanks dreamydays, I know what you mean about the miserableness of expressing! God it's loathsome. I find it particularly irksome when we have visitors and I have to nip upstairs to do it - I'd be happy to breastfeed in front of them, but I draw the line at pumping in front of anyone other than DH and my Mum.

Sorry to hear you are having problems and what a traumatic start for you. Has she been checked for tongue tie? Please google and get her checked by someone with experience if you think it's a possibility. I think sometimes when there are early birth problems feeding issues can get put down to that when in some cases it's another underlying problem. Also - well done for what you've done so far.

Im so sorry you're having such a hard time. It sounds like you're doing brilliantly in very tough circumstances, and I think you're amazing for keeping up the expressing for such a long time. Breastfeeding can be so so hard.

DD (5 wo) and I have had some similar problems. She absolutely wont latch, and the only thing that's helped have been nipple shields (I really like the Medela ones) - she'll latch happily with them. Nipple shields get some negative press - some studies suggest baby gets less milk through them. But as far as I know these studies are quite old, from when the shields were made of much thicker material. And, for me, I'd rather DD got some milk direct from the breast than none at all (which is the only other option).

the other thing that's really helped was a tongue-tie diagnosis - DD was snipped on Monday and it's made a huge overnight difference. Could this be relevant to you?

finally, please dont feel bad if you formula feed or mixed feed. IMO it's better for a baby to have a happy relaxed mum and be fed formula, than to have a stressed unhappy breastfeeding mum.

i really hope things improve for you soon.

Molly what brand shields do you use? I have some but I don't seem to be able to get them to stay on! Either they fall off or she knocks them off with her flailing arms!

Mikocat I used to hide upstairs when we had visitors too. Also I used to have to get up in the night to express and remember some great small-hours Radio 4! As time went on it was annoying not to be able to go out for too long - I felt chained to the machine.

By the way do you have a super-duper pump? I had one of those industrial Medela ones that's not too far distant from a farmyard milking machine. Where I lived (overseas) the pharmacy hired them out on prescription. Made a big difference.

Miko I use Medela brand nipple shields (they're available from Amazon, www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B001M0VW86). They're quite expensive but they're pretty good - they stay on much better than the Boots ones (especially if you use Vaseline to help them stick on, and if you follow the enclosed instructions about putting them on (you have to try and create a vacuum around your nipple)). They're made of quite robust silicon, have a cut-out section so baby's chin can rub against the breast, and come in 3 different sizes. Promise I'm not a Medela employee - I just think they're quite fab!

I also used Medela nipple shields after problems with latch and lots of pain. They were a godsend and I was able to stop using them at 12 weeks. Tbh though I wouldn't have found it a problem to keep using them, they didn't affect my supply. Worth a try!

Oh Miko, poor you. It does sound a little like tongue tie- DS1 would try to latch, make a half hearted suck then come off screaming. We were lucky that it was snipped in hospital but it still took a while for him to feed.

Try googling some pictures and having a look to see if that's a possibility (unless the bf counsellor already ruled it out?).

Oh and try calling the NCT. They have Breastfeeding counsellors and usually have a local agent that hires out hospital grade breast pumps if you want to express still.

Congratulations. Sorry to hear you are struggling with feeding. I had similar problems and in the end resorted to nipple shields. I use the Avent ones and they completely saved me from having to give up. I have never had any issues with supply or DS not getting enough. He is now 18 months and toddles over waving a nipple shield at me shouting "yeah, yeah" when he fancies a feed. Good luck.

Sorry you are struggling. If you are using any teat other than the "medela haberman" teat then your LO is getting their milk very easily, which means they won't like having to do some work on the nipple.

The Haberman teat is available from Mothercare, or online. It was originally designed for special needs babies, but don't let that put you off. The baby actively has to suck to get milk and it stops them getting lazy if you are mix feeding.

Keep putting her to your breast regardless of whether she is getting milk or not. Her salive carries chemical messengers which tell your body, via receptors on your nipples, what antibodies she needs to be provided in your milk, so it will definitely help her.

I know what you mean about expressing being more embarassing than breastfeeding. I even hated expressing in front of DH and cringed whenever I had to disappear at work to have a session. Also, remember to express in the middle of the night between 1 and 6 a.m. - horrible but it helps keep your supply up.

Good luck with checking for tongue-tie. When it all gets too much, chocolate cake and a glass of wine are great fortifiers.

I can SO sympathise with this, Mikocat! :big hug: My DS is 7 weeks this Sunday and I have tried so much to BF him, with very mixed results. I had a long, protracted labour, ending up with forceps delivery, my milk didn't come until a week after the delivery, and on top of all this my iron levels had dropped quite dramatically. Like probably everyone else here I thought that BF just happens - you just put your baby to your breast and off you go (insert dreamy, hazy picture of perfect mother/baby). How wrong I was and what a disappointment it has been!

I have been to at least 5 BF clinics, managed to get him attached via the Medela nipple shields, with mixed results. In the end I got so nervous before each feed (will he attach, won't he attach, for how long) that I started getting knots in my stomach before every feed. When I realised this was happening (dreadful, dreadful feeling) I decided that enough was enough and that I was solely going to express.

But even expressing is not an easy ride - you have to fit it in along with everything else. And it is especially distressing when you start expressing and your baby starts crying! It is then that I reach rock bottom - when I feel like the utmost failure for not being able to comfort my baby by sticking him to my breast. Sad times. I am almost at a point where I am considering not pressurising myself with pumping so much as I feel it has got a detrimental effect on my relationship with DS. As MollyDefoe said: it's better for a baby to have a happy relaxed mum and be fed formula, than to have a stressed unhappy breastfeeding mum. And I am still coming to terms with not being able to BF - it is almost like a grieving process that I am going through.

To be honest, I would rather go for a walk in the park with him than obsess with trying to squeeze another pumping session in (nicely said, but I still have to practice what I preach).

Best of luck!

Hi Mikocat. Have you seen an IBCLC? An Internationally Board Certified Lactation Consultant?

My initial thoughts ran to tongue tie but guesswork over the net is never good. Try to see one as that might make life so much easier. The LC should be able to help you establish what the issue is with the feeding.

Wishing you success. Well done for coming so far. I hope you get to breastfeed for as long as you want.

Don't be afraid to give up if you want - I know how you feel. My LO will be 7 weeks tomorrow, and I think he will receive his last BF tomorrow.

I stopped pumping about 3 weeks ago, and he now gets one BF a day, if he'll have it (he's a VERY angry feeder, and I can't bear trying and failing at every feed). I stopped pumping because I want to do things with my day, like go for a walk, go for coffee with friends etc. I was at a point where feeding was taking twice as long. 30 minutes pumping, up to an hour to feed the EBM to the baby, rinse and repeat every 3 hours.

I am dissapointed that I'll be stopping sooner than I thought, but babies need to be fed - it doesn't HAVE to be breast milk.

You could try, start to express so your milk is flowing then put her to the breast so she won't get frustrated before there milk starts flowing. Good luck

Another tongue tie wonderer here - DS was very similar and had two, front and back, he'd arrived early so was tiny, couldn't latch, always fighting me, had EBM bottles for the first month, caused me dreadful pain, mix of BF and bottles until 2 months, and finally painless feeding and a good latch from 4 months onwards. He was snipped at 1wo and 2mo. He's 13mo now, and still BF happily.
I used the Medela shields, size small, they worked well for DS as they were good at transitioning him from bottle to breast (and helped with my pain). I inverted the teat, moistened the border, positioned the shield over the nipple, then let the teat draw it self back out over the nip, if that makes sense? This meant a good fit, but make sure you centre it properly or they can make you sore.

Another thing to consider is Silent Reflux - does she arch when she's trying to feed? DS was a refluxy baby, both kinds at different ages. All ok now, but it was a long old haul at the time.

When I was having all this trouble with DS, I kept giving myself two week deadlines, in the theory that I would stop BFing if it was still bad two weeks later. I kept extending it, and giving it another two weeks, then another - it was up and down a lot, but I'm glad I persevered. It took me four months to get sorted tho, and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

If you're certain you want to keep trying, and have ruled out tongue tie and silent reflux, could you make her go cold turkey from the bottle?
Only if you're happy with her current weight if course, and check with your HV or doc perhaps first? Just stop offering bottles and offer the breast constantly, maybe for a day? If you worry that she isn't drinking, you could cup feed her water (if you don't know, you offer water in small cup and they lap it with their tongues). It could be that she knows bottle is easier, so if she realises bottles aren't coming maybe she'd work harder to latch on. Apologies if this is a stupid suggestion, I did something similar with DS, moving him from bottle>breast shields>bare breast but I know it isn't an easy option to consider.

As others have said, happy mother = happy baby, so don't beat yourself up about it. You are doing your very best but she's just not cooperating!
Incredibly long post, sorry...

It also took my DD weeks to latch on. Like you I couldn't bring myself to try more than a couple of times a day for a while as it was too upsetting. However, she did in the end. I did the following things:

Always tried her with nipples shields. Modela (not sure i've spelled that right - same as others have recommended) ones (large size for me)

Didn't tip the bottle too much, so there was air in the teat, so she was having to suck rather than the milk just pouring out

Fed her facing me, resting on my sloping thighs (iyswim) so there was lots of eye contact

Kept trying to put her on after pumping for a couple of minutes so the milk was flowing and my nipples were easy to latch onto

Finally, a breast feeding support worker recommended bathing with her. I didn't quite get round to this as it seemed a faff and it needed my DH to be around but one evening I did and she latched on in the bath and started to suck......

You've done so well to get this far - well done. If you choose to stop now then remember that but for what its worth, I'm so pleased I carried on. DD is now 5 months and I finally dispensed with the nipple shields only last week, but it's so easy to feed her now, no mess, no fuss and free! I give her one bottle of FF a day so that I know she'll take it if she has to.

Good luck.

Oops, forgot a potentially crucial point - tongue tie here as well, which was snipped about a week before she latched on properly.