5 days old, not latched on yet...will she forget what to do?

[HamblesHandbag]

DD was born on thursday, 5 weeks early by CS. she was put on the breast and had a good go, but wasn't getting anything. her blood sugars and body temp were low so she had a day in scbu and had formula feeds.

I've been putting her to the breast at each feed and she seemed to have a good latch and would have a few sucks, but then would become distressed at not getting any milk (I assume). she then has some formula to satiate her and I express afterwards.

so today, I've continued like this and I finally seem to be getting some decent amounts of milk. but when I put her to the boob, she roots for it then doesn't really suck like she was doing.

is she losing the instinct because the bottles are so easy to suck from?

I don't know much about it personally but look up supplemental nursing system, I have read about it. It works with tubes taped to your boobs, the baby has to suck at the breast to get the formula out of the tubes. Your breasts get stimulation to get supply up and baby gets used to nursing. perhaps the hospital might be able to fix you up with something like that.

Congratulations on your DD :)

It sounds like you are doing well, early days.

My DD was injured at birth and couldn't be BF from about 2 days to about 8 days (exact times hazy now). She was taking expressed breastmilk from the standard bottles provided by the hospital (ie not the new style designed to be mor enipple-like or anything).

What really helped to re-establish breastfeeding was

1. persisting even when she seemed to want bottle. Sometimes gave a few mls by bottle then breastfed.
2. biological nursing, which basically seems to be lying in bed naked getting lots of skin to skin and mummy/baby time. I am sure someone else can explain better

You could maybe hand express a bit before putting her on so that she gets milk straight away?

Are you getting support? I called a breastfeeding helpline and that was good too.

Hi Hambles, congrats on your new DD :)

I really think some real life support would be your best option here. It is absolutely possible to get your DD back to the breast with the right support and information. If there is an LLL or NCT counsellor nearby then they will be able to help you out.

Plenty of skin-to-skin contact will be good but it's also important to make sure your DD is getting enough milk.

thanks.

ok, the MW mentioned skin to skin but I forgot about it, what with visitors etc...

what kind of support could I get from LLL or NCT? I assumed all I needed was here on MN!!

Well, obviously MN is great but NCT or LLL will be trained and will have experience of similar situations so they'll be able to go through everything with you and come up with a plan to try and get your DD breastfeeding. It's hard through a forum because things often get missed or you don't get the whole picture. With a breastfeeding counsellor they'll be able to support you through the whole thing.

I found it useful just having someone to cry talk to. I can't really remember what we discussed, just found it helpful to have an experienced BF right there.

Are you still seeing midwife every day? As EauRouge says it is important to check baby is getting enough milk, I found midwife very reassuring when we were worried and DP was thinking maybe we should bottle feed.

ah, I see, thank Eau and falling.

I'll perhaps ring LLL tomorrow for a chat, and I'll ask more about the supplemental feeding system too. I don't feel stressed about it yet as she is taking formula, and nappies are fine. I'm just wondering if we'll ever get to the point where I can feed her without formula, or if I'm on a road to nowhere. I'm not keen on being hooked up to the milking machine so often, but I wouldn't mind doing it if it was less often.

MW will be back tomorrow (Day 6) and I'll ask her advice too.

Falling, I hadn't thought of taking the edge off her hunger with a bit of formula and then putting her on the boob. Worth a try?

There is hope - both of my babies were feed breast and bottle. They didn't seem to prefer the bottle at any point, but they both needed it for gaining enough weight. My daughter had bottle and breast for 9 months, and my son had bottle and breast for 6 months, then he suddenly lost interest in the bottle and had breast only (and some solids) for another 3 months.

My health visitor told me to get a syringe with a plastic tip (a 10 or 20 ml syringe) and feed her a little bit of formula milk with this, just dripping it into her mouth (honestly can't remember exactly why, but it obviously had something to do with trying to not bottle feed) before or after breast feeding, just to keep her going and awake. It worked well even if it was terribly fiddly. Perhaps it's worth a try or you.

Also, it might be a good idea to get the father or someone else to exclusively bottle feed her, not you, so that she doesn't connect you with the bottle. That's what I did. Always make sure that whoever is giving the bottle holds her with body contact, no sticking the bottle down to her in her cot.

Keep persevering, she will learn, she is only 5 days old. But do keep supplementing with formula if it is neccessary.

hmmm, I just tried the little bit of formula and then put her to the breast.

She rooted for the nipple but didn't try and suck. Eventually she just started throwing her head back away from me and got distressed. She then polished off the rest of a 60 ml feed.

Hambles - we you touching the back of her head when she was throwing it back? There is a birthing reflex at the back of the head (it helps baby come down the birth canal) but it can be triggered by holding their head rather than supporting their neck when bfing.

This can lead to a very frustrated baby as their instincts say bf but then their head goes back all of a sudden (a bit like you trying to put on a shoe when someone is hitting your knee reflex point!).

Have you tried biological nurturing position for bfing? That can really help with getting bfing started especially with such a young baby.

that's interesting TruthSweet, I'll be careful of that. It sounds infuriating for them!

I've had a look at the biological nurturing site now.

So, does it just mean lying down with lots of skin to skin before and after?

Maybe I should just take to my bed with her later.

Taking her to bed with you would be a great idea Hamble.

The BN approach is not not too prescriptive, but generally the mother is comfortable, semi reclined, propped up on positions. This way, the baby can be on her front and is fully supported (ideally skin to skin ). The baby will often self attach without the mother having to actually 'hold' the baby and it's believed this position is one that awakens the baby's natural instincts to feed.

Another thought I had was that you may find breast compressions useful when she find the flow slowing down. You can find good video clips about it on Dr Jack Newman's site.

Hope you have a good, relaxing day.