Advised to supplement by hv? Your words of wisdom please...

[winterland]

Evening all. My baby is 10 weeks old today. Exclusively breast fed. She feeds 2 hourly through the day, sometimes 3. Sleeps through from 11 to 6am.
At birth she weighed 7lb 1 . She dipped and then by 6 weeks she was 8lb 3. Had her weighed today and she has gone down to 8lb but grown 2 cm in length. So in a month she has lost 3 oz. she does look very skinny but then, so are her brother and sister.

Predictably the hv has told me to start following each bf with formula. But won't this affect my supply? I absolutely do not want to give up bf, or supplement at all really but not sure what to do. She does have a very minor tongue tie which she has been referred to the hosp for but not sure of this is relevant?

Any words of wisdom? The hv is ringing me tomorrow to find out my decision....

Can you try a tube supplementer like this instead?

www.lowmilksupply.org/abs.shtml

You can buy from Amazon here:

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000W73YKY

Thanks for the links, I'll have a look. Ive got an appt with the bf clinic at the hosp on Monday where they watch a whole feed and check it all out. Im in touch with bf person at lll too. My boobs are fit to burst put the pump isn't working, and dd doesn't want to get it out. I'm trying in a cool room, to make sure she's not too hot too.

Does a more expensive pump, of at least one with different sucking speeds help? I have a medela mini electric borrowed from the midwives but the suck doesn't really replicate a baby very well?

Have you tried hand expressing at all? There's loads of videos on youtube.

You're doing incredibly well BTW. :-)

Have you tried feeding in the bath? Just thinking it might be cooler and less sticky to fill a nice deep bath and have baby lie on you, lots of skin to skin, and have a nice relaxing time together?

Or just the two of you spend the day in bed in a nice cool room, both stripped off so she can smell and feel you and feed whenever she wants.

A different pump may well help- I can express at least 5oz in about 10 minutes with my basic manual pump, but the medela mini really didn't work for me- I got about half an ounce in twice as long!

if you can't pump wit ha pump have you tried hand expressing?

I find it easier.

one video

i sometimes eexpress by hand and then put the pump on later once i'v got the letdown.

Sooo, went for tongue tie op but apparently it's too mild to bother doing anything! So no miracle cure for me. we're still feeding and topping up, but I'm worried about supply.

The milk appears to be there but I'm not sure if she's sucking hard enough or the latch is good enough to get it out. I only get the let down reflex sporadically. It's all so frustrating! The last couple of mornings have been a nightmare pumping wise, I was getting 4 ish oz out but dry as a bone this time. If I squeeze by hand milk flys out everywhere but nothing with the pump

Of course me getting cross about it doesn't help. Bf phone lines haven't helped so I'm off to bf clinic at the hospital next week, where they watch a whole feed.

She's so wriggly and unsettled when I feed I know I'm not doing something right. When I top up with the bottle (ebf or formula) she's still and sucks contentedly.

Thanks for listening all, I feel like a failure. And my mum and dh constantly comment how much happier she is after formula....

Op my phone is about to go flat but please take your dd to be seen by your Gp. Weight loss really needs checking medically, it may not be a bf issue. My ds did similar and turned out to be a uti.
I am a GP but working in paeds ATM and we would definitely want to review a baby with weight loss like you describe.

If hand expressing works better than pumping then hand express :)

You are still doing incredibly well.

If it flies out, then keep doing it by hand :)

I find that it goes in all directions, so I get a really big bowl (sterilized first of course!) (if you've got a dishwasher, put it through on the hot cycle) and put it on my lap to catch it all.

I have tried it with a bottle right over my nipple, but it's sooo awkward to hold it there and squeeze milk out at the same time.

oh, and say to your DH - "I am doing the best for OUR baby. I need your support. That means fetching me food and drinks when I ask, and not making negative comments at all."
and to your mum "you've had your turn, this is mine"

don't forget, it's easier to get milk out of a bottle.
my friend bought a teat that's got a membrane or something over the entrance to the bottle, inside the teat, and it means the baby really has to work for the milk, rather than it just coming out with little effort.
It means that he's not losing the ability to suck at the breast, and of course, because he's having to work for it no matter where he gets milk from, he's not being lazy at the breast and is actually sucking.
I'll text her for the name of it.

Was your baby checked out when you went for the tongue tie? Was a feed observed?

I'd still be concerned. Weight loss should always be investigated.

I exclusively expressed for ds after he had a tongue tie and poor latch. You do get different sized shields for pumps. I needed I smaller one than what came with the pump I hired. There was a huge difference in the amount of milk I got. Just something to consider.

Please don't feel like a failure. It's easy for me to say, but I was in a similar position to you and had to start formula top ups at 2 weeks, but I got my supply backnontrack and made it to 5 months of only expressing, then I mixed fed until just over 6 months. My mantra was every breast feed was a bonus, and formula wasn't poison.
Take care of yourself.

tiktok - i had a similar conversation with my friend.
basically, she was told that he had a tongue-tie but becuse he could stick his tongue out, they wouldn't cut it, because it shouldn't affect his speech.
She made the argument about BFing, but guess what? apparently, they don't take that into consideration (in her PCT) because she can bottle-feed him

Nothing to add to a lot of the very good advice given here, but just one thought based on my own experience.

My little one was not gaining weight and I was advised to top up with formula, but the HV knew I wanted to continue breastfeeding, so suggested adding the top up as an "extra" feed at a time that I wasn't usually breastfeeding (which was early evening for me). Eventually we ended up with 2x 4oz top ups, one at lunchtime and one early evening, and continued like this alongside breastfeeding until c. 20 months, her weight gain was then fine and from being below the bottom line, she climbed right back up the charts. So if you do keep on with the FF top ups this might be an approach you could consider.

OP, I'm sorry to hear you have been having a tough time. One thought is, it sounds like you might need to source another pump, or hand express as others have suggested. The Medela mini electric is really only marketed as for occasional use, and isn't very powerful, plus it's possible the one you've been given has seen a lot of use. In a situation like yours, it can be a good idea to hire a hospital grade pump which is more powerful and can also be used to express both breasts at once. Medela and Ardo are the main suppliers. PM me if you'd like more details.

hum I'd still be concerned about the tounge tie. We know that even minor ties can cause feeding problems and other babies can feed wellenoght with quite a bad tie. So the extent of the tie doesn't seem to be related to how well they can feed.
Do you have the option of going private at all? You can find a location consultant who's qualified to snip tounge ties on the location consultant website. Or if there is no one local to you some one like milk matters can give a consultation and possibly help feed you back into the nos system if you can't afford a private snip.

the tea that my friend uses (that I mentioned earlier) that 's hard to get the milk out of the bottle is a medela calma teat.

here's all the info

Hi all, I think the tongue tie might still be an issue too. Having read the info on milk matters she does have a lot of the symptoms.. I have hired a Medea symphony, and it either works great or not at all!

So the hv was here again today and she hasn't gained at all despite top ups after every feed. She gained at the end of week 11 but nothing since? We are feeding about 8 times in a 24 hr period and she takes 2/3 oz from a bottle after a bf before she refuses the bottle. But no weight gain? And you are absolutely not going to believe what she brought up today -

WEANING! My face must have been a bloody picture! This is a baby who is the size of many new borns. I was incredulous, and said I'd prob try BLW at 7 months like the others.. She said that some babies just don't do well on milk and thrive on solids. Really??

So following today's visit we are back
Under the consultants eye, and I'm waiting to hear back about an appt. I wish they d rush it through though, everything seems to take so long ..,

can you fit more than 8 feeds in?

i hope they take the tongue-tie seriously now - it must be affecting the bottle feeding too, if she's still not gaining!

OMG, can't believe the HV suggested weaning such a small baby. I don't understand why they didn't just snip the TT since they had bothered to see you. Even if they thought it wasn't that bad. Can you push for it to be done anyway?

She suggested what?!

I also think that 8 times sounds a little low. Can you try offering more often?

And yes, I think pushing for a TT snip might be worth it.