positions for reducing wind in newborn

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DS is 3 days old, and is really suffering from wind. He seems to audibly swallow masses of air when feeding, and has started to come off, wailing, after just a few minutes at the breast. It's hard to burp him, and more often than not he then sicks up loads of what he's just eaten.

Are there feeding positions that are better/worse for wind? And any magic burping tips?

We saw a lactation consultant today & asked the same thing. She recommended a technique that I'll try to explain.

We sit DS on our lap & support his body and head so he's upright. Then lean him forward about 30-40 degrees and rotate him in a circle with his bum still still on your lap. It's almost as if there's a huge ice cream cone & your moving their body around IYSWIM.

She said you don't need to hear a burp with breast fed babies (although we get one), just keep the oesophagus straight. The movement dislodged the air & relieves pressure in the tummy.

After weeks of ineffective rubbing & patting it seems to be working.

I'm no expert, and one will hopefully come along, but when DS was brand new and I was really struggling with feeding, and he was being crippled by wind and colic, a fantastic breastfeeding counciler who helped me said that when babies aren't latching on well, or are still just new to BFing and still learning what to do, they can't coordinate breathing and sucking and swallowing well so end up swallowing air and getting wind. She didn't give me positions specifically better for not getting wind, it was just that getting whaever position you are confortable with completly right, and a really good latch. Easier said than done, especially at 3 days (took me 3 months i think!!). Good luck, and congratulations!

stripy, the ice cream burping technique sounds interesting! So you just wiggle the whole baby round, is that right? Will try it after next feed. He definitely needs to make noisy burps just now - when he doesn't he is in misery when he lies down, and if he's not got up again almost immediately, he COVERS himself in sicked up milk...

flowerboots, I think that's exactly what's happening. we aren't getting something right, and he's swallowing masses of air along with milk. His latch looks ok to me, but I can hear big swallows of air along with milk. He was sicky with just colostrum, but now my milk is in it's a lot worse...

Any experts and/or other miracle cures? Was up pretty much the whole of last night and am wrecked...

Have you had him checked for tongue tie?

Have you thought about reflux? In my limited experience, 3 day olds don't tend to have wind but can suffer with reflux from the start-and the vomiting would fit with that. Pm me for more info or read the reflux thread from august 2010 with symptoms and tips. Good luck.

Yes you just rotate their little bodies at an angle. Bit like you're stirring massive pot in a wide circle but with their bum on your lap.

I find it's the movement that often dislodged it - passing him to DH, changing positions etc. This technique fits with that. It's also quite gentle so they don't vom or fall asleep. It's still working here & is much less labour intensive!

I also keep DS upright for a least 15 mins or else it will come back up. I would check for TT too which has been our problem.

tongue tie - will ask midwives when they come on Mon (they've just cancelled coming today, saying it sounded like 'everything was fine').

survival - will pm you now abt reflux. Hideous thought...

thanks v much everyone. is remarkably calming just to have some ideas to be going along with... much better than lonely midnight madness!

StripeyZ thank you so much! Have just tried that & got 2 burps and a fart within 30 seconds! Have a v unhappy windy 5 wk old & it seems to be getting worse, not better. It's awful when they're windy at night. I'm taking my LO into bed to feed her but keep falling asleep. Therefore don't wind her properly & spend the rst of the night trying to settle her again. Does s'one else get up for the 3(ish) am feed & find that better? I've also co-slept & fed lying down but think that's a problem with winding too....

I have always used the technique that StripeyZ describes too - you have to move them in a clockwise direction iirc. Sometimes I'd stop mid-feed and burp, so there wasn't a huge amount of gas to come out at once at the end.

Jelly, I've been having the same problem - bringing ds into bed, then nodding off during a feed and then spending the next hour or so pacing around trying to calm ds's wind because he's so uncomfortable he can't lie down.
I'm going to try stripey's ice cream trick after next feed. How long do I need to 'stir' for?

Pleased it's working! Still doing the job for us too. Didn't know about the clockwise thing so thanks, started doing that.

Make sure you find a breastfeedig councilor to see so they can help you check positions and latch and give you confidence. They will also be able to check for tongue tie. Do it now! Ring one of the help lines. I struggled for ages thinking no one could help over the phone and when I did speak to someoen they were amazing and made a world of difference. Seeing one face to face better of course if you can.

Also, infacol was our best friend! DS had gallons of the stuff, it made a big difference to his wind issues.

Congratulations! I found using a wrap around sling was life changing. The Kari-me is a good one as it has a good amount of elastic action making it super comfy with no back strain. Basically I carried DD in it as much as possible from 3 weeks old when her wind/colic/reflux kicked in. It also helped her burp sometimes as the positioning is very upright. The more I carried her in this way during the day, the better her wind was even at night. Direct correlation.
My concern was that in doing this I was creating a monster that wouldn't be put down later but it wasn't the case and she is now nearly 6 months and has no problems with being put down and I still use the sling for out and about.... She will still snooze in it!

Just come back to this - thank you for new advice.

ice cream burping continues to work really well: fantastic tip, thank you so much. And sickness mostly gone, though he'll still puke impressively if we don't get enough wind up at lunchtime in particular.

am going to try and get someone to have a look at his latch, as he's still gulping masses of air. seems to mean he has to come off simply in order to catch his breath, and he can't then take any more until the wind is out of his tummy and he has space for more milk...

I feel I should know how to do this: I fed DS1 for 4 years, DD for more than 2 - why is this suddenly tricky??!

I am loving the ice cream burping technique! Stripey - do I keep DS at the 30 - 40 degree angle forward throughout the rotation or do I lean him back at the "rear" of the rotation.

Whilst carrying DS over my shoulder up the stairs to bed last night, he did a massive burp. After one of his night feeds, the ice cream technique produced one burp & then a few trips up & down the stairs produced another.

bf peer supporters and midwife say he may have a posterior tongue tie, but not a bad one. Do you reckon it's worth getting referred to a tongue tie clinic? 3 week wait, apparently. He's put on 300g in a week, so clearly isn't starving. But we need to see GP tomorrow because his breathing is funny and his heart rate is too fast... May just relate to feeding, but they're not sure. Have been trying feeding him sitting up more (jockey position, I'm told!) which seems to make a bit of a difference to the air swallowing. But am feeling v v fragile about it all just now. Urgh.

thank you puddle jumper, I'm feeling a bit better today (more sleep last night, so less tearful!) Seeing GP a bit later - the concern is that there may be some more fundamental reason why his breathing is a bit funny (very fast, a lot of the time), and his heart rate is faster than it should be. Fingers crossed it won't be anything - he's a nice colour, generally contented, putting on weight etc. I'd forgotten just how much of a roller coaster these early days are...

Still not really managing to get him to feed without taking in masses of air. Getting more breast in his mouth makes things a little better, but it's still not perfect.

Think I'll see if the GP will refer for tongue tie - I agree, we won't regret getting it checked, but might regret not.

So, GP says breathing/heart seem ok.
Also no tongue tie.
Not a BF expert though.

But the air swallowing continues. Had him in bed last night, and gave him a finger to suck on - cue just the same gulping of air that he does at the breast.

What's going on? Why is he doing this? Neighbour (retired consultant, but not paed) suggests perhaps some nasal passage/palate constriction. Any ideas?

Anybody?

For instance, what's the likelihood it's something as simple as an oversupply/too fast let-down problem, and he's just gulping because he can't cope?

(though this doesn't explain why he gulped so much air when it was just colostrum, or when he's sucking on my finger...)

Can you get a referral to someone who does know about TT (e.g. TT Clinic, IBCLC from TT list) as I very much doubt a GP knows how to identify a less than obvious TT (did the GP use his fingers or his eyes to examine baby? If just eyes then it's probably not enough).

Palate anomalies often goes hand in hand with TT as well.