If BF hurt like bejeesus last time will it be the same this time??

[gnocci]

Currently 21 weeks pg with DD and have an 18m old DS.

I managed to BF him for 9 says until I got to the point when I would rather have ripped my own arm off than bf one more time. It was so excrutiatingly painful I had to literally stamp my feet and wring my hands to get through it (I'm not a wuss either, DS was 9lb back2back with no pain relief). Only way I can explain it was like having to hold your hand in a fire and not pull it away against all your natural reflexes. That is what it was like holding him to me :( :(

Everyone who saw my bf said latch was fine, positioning was fine, baby feeding well etc etc.

I would love to BF DD, I really would, but I cant bear the hellish nightmare I had last time, particularly with a toddler to think about too this time.

Anyone had an awful time the first time and then fine the second??!!!!

What on earth was I doing wrong :( :(

My first time was awful too and I absolutely know what you mean about the holding your nipples in the flame feeling. In my experience the only person who can really tell if the latch is right is you. Even when you're in agony and cracked and bleeding if the latch is right, after one minute the pain is just a niggle. If it isn't take baby off and start again (a finger in the corner of LO's mouth to break the latch works). Get the latch right and the healing is done in a matter of a few days. I think it was 6 weeks before I got the latch right with DS1!

Lansinoh cream was my saviour. I read an article explaining that nipple skin is very similar in structure to lip skin and the same goes for nipples as chapped lips. Keep them dry and moisturised (more runny creams just seemed to blot off on whatever clothing I could bear to have touching me).

Took me 10 weeks to work out all that with DS1! The great news is that second time round I was a little bit sore for 4 or 5 days but DS2 actually could be bothered to open his mouth wide and we were then fine for the next 18 months.

It is worth trying again and might be totally different for you with you new little one!

Hopefully a breast feeding expert will be along soon with more advixe but I just wanted to say don't despair!

IME breasting is a partnership. I breastfed twins and I could have told you blind fold who I was feeding. It took me about 15 weeks to feed my DS without pain but with my dd we were more or less getting the hang of it at 8 weeks. I wasn't doing anything different but the babies were!

You may find that this baby may have no problems at all!

Good luck.

For me, pain was just as bad but didn't last as long... Plus, i felt more confident knowing it would stop eventually so persevered because i do remember first time round thinking it would never get better...

I was the same as skilbo, it was painful, but I knew it wouldn't last long. I fed DS till he was 2 and DD until she was 14 months, the pain seemed to go on forever with DS, but shorter with DD although I think in both cases it was about 2 weeks before I could feed reasonably painlessly.

I totally get your fire analogy, that's exactly what it was like for me.

For me dd1 was the same. I wept every time, even the thought of her wanting to feed broke me. I was producing so much blood I was making her sick and I gave ex bruises up and down his shins at night, kicking him because I wanted to scream. I hadbeen determined to feed her myself but I lasted two weeks

However, dd2, 18 months later, was a totally different ball game. I honestly didn't have a moment of trouble. No cracks, no mastitis, no pain (aside from the cramps that are normal with your womb contracting). I have no clue what was different but it was a breeze qnd I fed her for two years - and fed all my other dc for two years as well.

Don't despair, the same as labour/birth and everything else, each child is individual and what was true for one is not always for another. I was terrified of trying again but it was the most wonderful experience in the end

It really shouldn't hurt like that and if your in pain dispite what others are saying the latch possibly still wasn't right. There are other things that can cause problems like tounge tie or baby having a high arch pallate, the latch can look good from the outside sometimes but still cause pain due to these sorts of issues.

I would try to find out if your hospital has a infanct feeding co-ordinator who can help with feeding. Also seek out your local breastfeeding cafe while you are still pregant and go along.

Look into biological nurtaring feeding possitions before you have baby as this is often a good postion to get new babies well latch.

And most of all if it hurts this much through a feed seek more help dispite what anyone tells you ask for help else where if you get no joy from the midwifes. Like one of the breastfeeind support groups. National breastfeeing helpline, NCT, BfN or LLL. One of these may also be the people who run your local breastfeeding cafe.

MigGril is right- a good latch is not one that just looks goods, it should feel good and your DC should be getting milk effectively.

You can go along to a BF group before your DC2 is born if you want, it might be helpful to chat through your first experience and learn what to do if the same thing happens again (no guarantees that it will!). Even if you don't go to a group, make sure you take contact numbers for a local BF counsellor with you in your labour bag- MWs do not always have the time or knowledge to help out with BF challenges.

LLL
Baby Cafe
NCT

So in conclusion, what MigGril said

gnocci, I'm in the same position as you - 32 weeks with DC2. Feeding DC1 was a total nightmare. The best way I can describe it is that it was like having someone clamp my nips in a pair of pliers, and twist/pull them while simultaneously squeezing as hard as they could. I used to bite on folded-up muslins to get through the pain, but it got to the stage where I would be shaking and weeping at the thought of the next feed. Yet the hospital BF counsellor and NCT BF supporters all said that DC1 latched on well, etc etc, despite my nips being raw and distorted after every feed (the classic "new lipstick" shape). I kept at it for weeks (expressing every 3 hours round the clock) and we finally cracked it at 12 weeks, only for my milk to fail at 18 weeks :( Can't do that again with a toddler to look after as well.

It turns out - 2.5 years on - that DC1 has a tongue tie, as do I. It should have been checked for while we were still in the hospital. So at least this time, I'll know what to ask for - and if despite my best efforts we still can't manage it, tant pis. It will be formula and NO GUILT.

I remember having to hold dd's head to support her and pull her to the breast and having to scream inside my head "DON'T SQUEEZE, DON'T CRUSH, DON'T SQUEEZE". I would stamp my feet, bite my tongue and pinch my arms till they bruised because it hurt so much. I would count out loud through gritted teeth to keep from screaming. Finally a brilliant hv spotted the problem and after weeks of people saying the latch was fine, a small adjustment got rid of the pain completely.

I have an 8mo ds now and bfing him has been really, really easy. No pain at any point whatsoever.

showofhands do you remember what was wrong with the latch? your description is exactly as I would put it so we must have been doing something similar!

Thanks everyone for the replies - I think i need to get more opinions actually watching me feed. would be so nice to make a success of it this time!

No one has mentioned thrush yet, so I thought I would
I fed 3 DC's no problem and with the 4th,had horrendous pain, sounding much like yours, though I liked it to having crushed and broken pieces of glass sucked though my nipple. It turned out to be thrush in the breast, (probably caused by getting a poor latch due to exhaustion on day one because a hideously unsympathetic midwife refusing to take the baby for a wee while so I could sleep and I got a badly cracked nipple!!)
I didn't know you could get it in the breast and neither it seems did my HV!! It was an ancient doctor locum who picked it up, (luckily because I had 3 good experiences, I felt sure it was something I could overcome so kept pestering because I knew how much less work BF is in the end and I am lazy). Anyway, I had to sign some kind of disclaimer because then (7 years ago)the anti thrush meds weren't licensed n UK for BF mums or something, but they worked and it was cured.
Don't know if this has any relevance, but stick with it and get all the help you come and good luck this time.
xx

Gnocci: in short, no. It is not supposed to hurt and it does not hurt when it works. Please make sure you get advice before and after the birth- it does Akers a difference.
With DS1 bfding was so painful I cried at every feed despite the huge painkillers I was on and in the end I had to express as I could not bear to feed him fom the breast. It took weeks to get it right- but once it worked it was brilliant and I fed him until 23 months (and 5 months pregnant).
Given that experience I got are referral to the infant feeding coordinator at the hospital where I was going to have DC2 and had one-to-one advice pre-birth, went to a 3-hr breastfeeding class and then arranged to get extra help for Hearst few feeds in hospital. DS2 is now 3 weeks old and feeds beautifully. No pain, other than a little vey tolerable soreness on days 1 and 2, while we learnt how to latch on.
So do go and get advice and support: it does help!

I categorically DISAGREE with the statement that if it hurts you/baby are "not doing it right". Maybe true for some, but not all. My DD1 had perfect latch (confirmed by many HV and BF counsellors) but it hurt like hell for nearly 2 months.
DD2 now 6 weeks. It was sore for only 1 week this time.

With Dd I had 18 months of pain, with no sign of a cause despite working with LLL - I used to have to psyche myself up for each feed and feel very envious of mothers who had the strength to say enough was enough (can't explain why I didn't). Anyway, it turns out to be a combination of her having a bad lip tie (didn't even know it was a possibility!) with shallow latch although it looked perfect to everyone, and me having raynauds in the nipples (ditto, and big ouch!). I digress slightly, but the point is that I was also dreading feeding ds but after a couple of weeks of pain (and a tongue tie snip) we bf basically pain free and are still going. There is always a reason - we didn't find ours for a long time, but if it's hurting there is something wrong. Maybe just a position tweak (I helped a lady the other day who just needed to pull dc round a bit on one side so their neck was more extended iyswim), sometimes it's something like vasospasm/raynauds that you don't notice till you see purple nipples in the shower one day, sometimes it's something hidden like thrush. Every bf journey is very different, most of them need some sort of support so it's worth going along to cafe mama even while pg and building a relationship with a LLL leader or supporter that can help you straight away.

Best of luck.HTH.

From my experience, I fed DS (he's 6 now) for one week, was the most painful thing ever, unbearable pain. Nipples bled, etc. Although was told his latch was fine. I only BF DD1 (5) for a week but it wasn't painful and I am currently still BFing DD2 (20 months) and she feeds like a dream! I have no problems with her feeding at all, it has never hurt which is a completely different experience to DS. I think babies feed differently as I don't think I was doing anything different.

Great to hear some success stories of second-time rounders where bf-ing worked. My pain was very much like yours, OP, with me clenching my toes, gritting my teeth etc to get through each feed. I used to dread DS's hungry cry and try to find any way to delay or avoid a feed or cut a feed short (which in retrospect is probably why my supply eventually disappeared...!).

I even used to get these weird shooting nerve pains across my shoulder and over the right side of my face when he fed from the right side - really freaky feeling! Also had the same problem with twisted nipples, cracked skin but everyone saying the latch was OK.

I really hope it works out for me second time around as well. It would be nice to see that it's possible to enjoy bf-ing as some say they do, rather than wincing and feeling sick at the thought of it.