when/how did you give yourself permission to stop trying to BF? Also, advice on FF

[HardCheese]

This may not be that palatable a subject for some people here, who are passionately committed to breastfeeding (as am I), but I'm looking for some thoughts from anyone who has given up trying to breastfeed early on in their baby's life. When did you decide that the misery of trying and failing was poisoning your life and/or your attempts to bond with your new baby?

My little boy is a fortnight old tomorrow, and as those kind souls who've responded so generously to my other posts will know, my milk supply is almost nil, and he has been essentially FF from his first day - I didn't have good advice or BF support in hospital. I saw a lactation consultant yesterday, and she confirmed that I have flat nipples the baby can't latch onto, and a very low supply (fifteen minutes a side barely covers the bottom of the pump bottle, and not much more seems to come out when my baby nurses). I pump as many times a day as I can, wear nipple shields, and have been using a SNS for the past 48 hours. Am also taking large amounts of fenugreek. Nothing seems to be increasing my supply.

Basically, I am trying to decide when enough is enough. There are no signs of a stronger supply, and I feel that the incessant pumping, fiddling with the SNS, washing and sterilising it after each feed, taping it into place with the nipple shields etc etc is taking time I should be spending with my gorgeous little boy. (Despite all possible support from my lovely husband.) Also, we're all losing sleep, and I feel desperately stressed and miserable. Also housebound by all the kit I need.

If there were any signs of improvement, I would soldier on, but there aren't, and I feel I need to start thinking the unthinkable.

So - to anyone on here, who FF from their baby's early days, when did you decide enough was enough? How did you give yourself permission to give up?

Also, can anyone recommend a source of information on FFing? Everything seems so focused on the breast.

I have struggled like mad to breast feed my 3 babies (2weeks pumping with 1st who wouldn't latch few days with second who had bad tongue tie and 4 months with 3rd who went on nursing strike) - it doesn't sound like you have a huge choice. Be proud you've tried so hard - if you look around you can't tell who was bf or who was ff and there is a lot to being a mum and giving good nutrition to your children that is unrelated to milk. As to formula - presumably you have already been giving him one - if he is happy with it stick with it - the ingredients are all tightly regulated anyway

When ds started losing weight the second time. We'd already had one stay in hospital because he was losing - tbh that was probably an overcautious admission, but I'm not going to blame them for that - and i just couldn't stand the thought of all that stress and worry again.

Crikey, I suggest you re-read your post, and try to pretend you are the third person. I think you would agree in a heartbeat that you have tried for more than long enough. If giving up trying to BF will make you happier/calmer/give you more sleep, your baby will be happier in the long run too. You have given it your very best shot, the baby has had the colustrum bit so will have certainly benefited from your efforts, and I'm sure will grow up very happy and healthy. Well done for doing the bit of B/feeding you have managed, it's more than a lot of mothers do.

In a way I think you've answered your own question. You're stressed, tired, you've seen a professional but no change. Also all the faffing about with pumps etc could be time spent with your baby. Think what you would say if a friend said that to you.

I don't think BF has ever made it past the first week with any of my 3 DCs. I hated it so stopped. I understand some people may say BF, BF, BF whatever happens but I honestly think you should let it go.

You don't need to even 'give yourself permission' its not giving up or taking the easy route which I know is often implied about FF.

Everyone in your household will be a lot more content without the stress of this I'm sure and baby will pick up on that.

As a parent you have to make decisions based on you, the baby and the family not what works for everybody else. If you feel that BF isn't a suitable option, clearly because of the practicalities of low milk etc then thats the right way for your family.

I gave up when my DD lost so much weight that she was 0.1% off being admitted to hospital.

Oh, gosh, sympathies to those of you whose babies lost weight to that extent - how desperately stressful. My issue is different, though, in that I've been giving him formula since his blood sugar dropped the first night in hospital, when I couldn't get any colostrum out (I was desperate, and all the midwives would do is pinch my breasts until I couldn't stop crying) and his weight is fine, as far as I know. So there isn't that scary biological situation, just my desire to do the best for my lovely baby by breastfeeding clashing with my desire to just enjoy him and not spend these first days crying and struggling with an SNS etc.

Jimbos and Ruby, thanks - I know I would be kinder to a friend with the same problem, I just feel I would give years off my life to be able to do this for my baby. I'm very overwhelmed by how physically tiring and emotionally wrecking first time motherhood is, and I feel I'm letting him down at the first hurdle.

Have you phoned one of the helplines? You can talk through your situation with someone who has probably heard similar from other women. Its about supporting you to find what is right for you, not talking you into breastfeeding at all costs.

(Have to say this though - how much you can pump is no indication of supply.)

Have you thought about mix feeding? Ditch all the equipment and just put your baby to breast when you feel like it, FF the rest of the time. Yes there is a risk that your supply will go to nothing very quickly but even a small amount of breast milk is a good thing so might be a useful option for you.

Breastfeeding is the first big parenting thing, there will be plenty of other things too that you may find a breeze and other parents struggle with. Be kind to yourself.

I stopped at 10 days. I wanted to enjoy my new born and remember the first week of him with fondness not struggling and in pain. I have no doubts I did the right think for us.

Happy me happy DS

Personally I am of the belief that happy mum = happy baby & it's not worth ruining your lives over what is a minuscule part of the parenting choices you'll make over the course of your LO's life.

Go with whatever will make you all happy & it doesn't sound like the current situation is working out.

Agree with stranger, no need to put yourself in bf or ff category, just make sure baby's fed with ff and keep offering the boob when you feel it's right.
There's a lot more to bf than nutrition, and if baby is getting enough from ff, then offering the breast for comfort and the milk that is there will still be a lovely way of bonding for both of you and probably a nice pudding for baby!
I had flat nipples at first, and struggled quite a lot, I used shields for the first two months and I have to say that once you've fed for a while, they never go back flat so good news for any future babies!
you've done fantastically well to keep trying like this, but it sounds like the pressure you're putting on yourself is getting too much. Good luck with it all, and enjoy your baby xx

Your story almost mirrors mine Hardcheese, with my second DC (which was better, than my experience with DC1, would you believe!). I experienced the same issues re flat nipples, low supply and two babies that wouldn't/couldn't latch (DC2 eventually did, with shields). I had patchy advice the first time, so hired an amazing private lactation consultant for DC2, who was wonderful, supportive and got him to latch, but eventually I ended up with the same result as you. I gave up after about 3 weeks of mad crying latching sessions, sporadic feeding and mad pumping. It was devastating as I was really wanting it to work, but I felt myself becoming more and more exhausted, and slipping from baby blues towards something more serious. I know what you mean though, about "permission", its exactly how I saw it. I still well up a bit thinking about it (10 months later!) but I know in the greater scheme of things it was the best thing for us all. My DCs are healthy, happy, bang on target re their developmental goals, and that's what matters to me. Don't beat yourself about it, truly, we are so lucky in the west these days to have options :)

I'm an EBF - DS is 2.2 now, so probably fall into the 'passionate about BF' camp, but I just wanted to give you some support, and absolutely no judging or criticism. If it's not working, it's not working. Formula is there to give you a choice. Take the opportunity, just feed your DS, and enjoy him. There is far more to being a parent than milk.

It's not really the first hurdle though is it.... You've loved and cared for your little boy for 9 months already through every action you took to protect him while he was inside you.... You've given him life and a loving family. What an achievement that is when you think about it.

Think what you've been through in the past fortnight....you've tried so hard. You're a super hero in my eyes and you aren't letting your little one down by feeding him when he is hungry!

I chatted to you a bit on your other post and was wondering how you were getting on.....really hope you make the decision that's best for you and your son and allows you to enjoy bonding. What anyone else thinks isn't really relevant.

At the risk of being banished from MN immediately have a hug from me.

I'd actualy seek some more support having flat or invertied nipple's is not a barrier to breastfeeding. The clue is in the name baby latch's onto the breat not the nipple(nipple feeding is what cuases pain and cracked bleeding nipples) the nipple is just where you need to aim for.

If a profersonal said this to you then I think speeking to someone else would be a good idea. Give one of the helplines a call they will help you make the decision as to wearther you want to carry on or stop. Also you could try something like a syplimentry nursing system where you are giving all milk at the breast.

I gave up after 2 weeks. My nipples were cut and bleeding, my daughter was starving and every time she latched on I wanted to scream with pain. I dreaded her waking up and was becoming depressed quite quickly. My husband went out at midnight and bought formula and I felt enormous relief that the decision and responsibility for it had been taken out of my hands. I actually started to enjoy my daughter.

I expressed milk whilst trying (and failing) to get DD to latch on. I kept going for 8 wks, was desperately sad when I stopped, but looking back I think I was TOTALLY INSANE to keep going as long as I did.
My life was hugely limited - expressing in public would take a very brave person and need to express often (and it takes ages) - and when not expressing doing an impression of an octopus with SNS and unwilling baby - again, not something I felt able to do without privacy. It was a miserable, lonely demoralising time when I felt I was a failure.
Now I feel like I gave it my best shot and couldn't give a monkeys about what anyone else thinks when I whip out a bottle for my DD: you've put in an awful lot more effort than most of the people who you might assume would be judging you.
It's a very personal decision, but you need to try and figure out at which point you feel the chances of succeeding are too low against the misery the attempt is bringing.

Ditch all the equipment and just put your baby to breast when you feel like it, FF the rest of the time. Yes there is a risk that your supply will go to nothing very quickly but even a small amount of breast milk is a good thing so might be a useful option for you.

This - let baby suckle if they want, let them "use you as a dummy" and for comfort, and give the food via other means. Breastfeeding isn't just about getting calories down your baby's neck.

Formula feeding is hard work, but I suspect a lot easier than what you are putting yourself through.

Remember to read up on how to prepare formula safely.

I really tried for four days. When DD was looking thin and pale I called a halt to it. I'd tried pumping with some sort of machine that was more suited to a cow shed.
DD doesn't appear to be any the worse off for being FF for a year before she moved on to cows milk.

I should add, I was in hospital in the ME because I'd had a ELCS. I don't think Islept more than a couple of hours each day. Nor did she. I was constantly trying to feed her.

HardCheese, you have done a fantastic job already. You have grown and carried this wonderful little person, given birth to him and given him breast milk. What an amazing start to his life.

I understand the need for 'permission'. I had high hopes for BF with DC2, and it has been a nightmare. I had to pump as my nipples were wrecked, so much so I am still fashioning some sort of dressing to the left side even though she has not latched in weeks.

I still think about what ifs, should I have got more help, gone to a different BF group etc.

Anyone looking in from the outside, would give you that 'permission'. BF is such an emotive subject, and you never realise just how much until you come to do it! However, as others have said...you can still offer the breast to DS when you wish. Also you can still bond when FF'ing, lots of eye contact with your baby when feeding, holding them close etc.

At 2am, when it's just me and DD up and I am feeding her, albeit from a bottle, it still feels like the most magical thing in the world.

You have my greatest sympathies, I have been in a similiar situation. I am a first time mum, DD is now 23w/o and the first 9 weeks of her life were spent with me expressing BF, sterilising bottles to top up with formula and expressing until there was nothing more to express. I also was given bad advice, when she was born I knew nothing of growth spurts and so when she went through the 3 day growth spurt I thought I had no supply and she was starving. When midwife came over she was horrified at how hungry DD was and told me to immediately give her formula, panicking I did. This is where our troubles began because in my case if I had stuck with it and not given her formula then my supply would have caught up. So weeks of topping up and keeping a diary of EVERY feed she ever had meant that I spent the entire time worrying. Every day I thought about giving up and it pushed me to the verge of PND. All I could think of was it's good for her and I must not give up. The guilt kept me going. You feel guilty for wanting to give up, you feel guilty when you know you can phone a helpline but don't because deep down you know you want to give up and you don't want anyone to talk you around. Each growth spurt that comes along tests you too and when you're poorly and still have to feed that's so hard. I know some women don't struggle with it and I am soooooo jealous because I feel like I owe it to DD to give her the best start in life.

I can honestly say that reading what you said made me realise how much I wish I'd given up sooner. Guilt and persistance made me continue and DD and I have faced a lot of battles together and now I look at her and realise that I have spent the first 5 months of her life worrying about BF and often feeling stressed, tired, anxious and sad. I'm still BF but now I give her formula at bedtime and before naps and that seems to work for us for now. I don't know how much longer I plan on BF her but when she goes to nursery she will be bottle fed, but whether I BF at home I haven't decided.

I'm not trying to sway you to give up, I just want you to decide if this is having so much of an impact on your life that you won't enjoy your LO. If that's the case it's really not worth it and you should enjoy the time you have with your DS.

I gave up at six weeks, DD viewed my boob as a comforter and promptly fell asleep every time she latched on, this was not helped by her needing antibiotics for the first couple of days after birth, she had to have a measured amount of feed so the auxilliaries (?) insisted on giving her formula in a cup and then a bottle. Then I got a bladder infection and couldn't feed her due to the anti-biotics so was pumping to try and get my supply up and then having to chuck it away .

I carried on giving her my boob and then topping her up with formula but she was a dreadfull sleeper (possible silent reflux) and frankly I couldn't cope with no sleep, pumping, making bottles, screaming and the rapidly approaching deadline for me to go back to work (11 weeks).

Honestly, by all means try looking for more advice if you want but no one is going to give you a hard time about giving up. Instead I shall offer you a medal for persisting this far. Your DC has got some, thats more than a lot of folks manage.

Thanks, everyone, for being so exceptionally kind. I can't say how much I appreciate it, especially from people who 'get it' and have talked about their own experiences. My pre-baby self wouldn't have seen the issue at all, or at least wouldn't have understood why the whole thing feels so raw.

I think my body is making the decision for me, to be honest. There is nothing there. I had less milk today (as far as I can judge) than two days ago, despite all efforts. My BF counsellor, who called again today, and confirms my baby's latch is fine, has suggested I see my GP, as she suspects some underlying physical cause, possibly thyroid-related, or at least wants to rule it out. I think it may just be stress.

Honestly OP, you sound like you're torturing yourself. I tried breastfeeding, but DS couldn't/wouldn't latch on and I had at least five different midwives helping. I then expressed milk and gave him formula too. I gave up expressing when he was two and a half weeks old as I was pumping both boobs for an hour and only had 30mls to show for it.

I decided enough was enough and I would be better off spending my time looking after DS than feeling bad about not breastfeeding. Also my DH was going back to work and I physically didn't have the time to pump milk for an hour every 2-3 hours as recommended to me.

My mum said to me, that as long as the baby is happy and healthy that's the main thing, and it's how you look after your child for the next 18 years that is important, not what they drank for the first few months of their life.

I like you wanted to breast feed so badly, but I also had no milk..if I got 3 drops out after pumping for 20 min that was a good day. My milk supply never came, I was absolutely distraught and exhausted from all the pumping, sterilising of equipment etc.... And also a single parent so I didn't have a lot of support either at home.

I was then asked the question if my breasts had changed much during pregnancy and to be honest they were the exact size they were before I became pregnant. I had been on antidepressants for 10 years before getting prergnant, but wasn't on any tablets during my pregnancy. The drs all then decided that my hormones had been affected by the years of needing antidepressants and I would never make milk.

So I felt I really had no option but to stop breast feeding and fully commit to formula feeding. I felt good that I had tried my hardest for 2 weeks to produce milk but it wasn't to be. Unfortunately my DD developed silent reflux and colic too so formula feeding wasn't as easy as it could be, but my dd could have had this while being breast fed too.

You are the only one who can make the decision- it has to be right for you. You have given it a good go, and when you look back on it when your child is older at least you will know you tried.

My dd is now 5 and now that I have been off all antidepressants for 6 years I actually produce a tiny bit of milk before each period!!! It makes me laugh now as I couldn't for love nor money produce it when I wanted it to, but now when I don't want to I can! Don't you just love the way our bodies treat us!