All consuming feeding and sleeping worry

[lizzywig]

This is both a food and sleep issue, sorry if I?ve put this in the wrong place.

DD was born at 8lb 8oz, by day 5 she had dropped to 7lb 9oz, I did not know this was normal and so when MW told me to top up with formula I did. Here began a saga of expressing, breastfeeding and topping up with formula. She regained her birth weight by 3w/o (plus some) and was on the 75th centile (I?m sure this was due to topping up). We stopped this exhausting routine at 8w/o and she was BF only (apart from a bedtime bottle given by DH and I would come in and BF if required after). At 10w/o she weighed 11lb 12oz & dropped to 50th centile. This seemed to tie in with stopping topping up. At 14w/o she was still on 50th centile. At 16w/o she stopped napping in the day, I tried everything but the only thing that worked was giving her 2 or 3oz of formula and then BF after (to mirror bedtime) for 5 mins (just BF would not work). Since 16wo we have been following this pattern (times are a rough guide as they do change):

7am: wake and breastfeed (and she really goes to town) for approx 15 mins
10am: nap time - 3oz of formula + 5mins BF before nap (has to be in this order...I have tried the other way!)
10:30am: wake and BF for 10 mins (she will scream if I don't)
1pm: nap time - 3oz of formula + 5 BF before nap
3pm: wake and BF for 10 mins
(5pm: sometimes BF for 10 mins)
7pm: bed time 7oz of formula + 5-10mins BF

I got her weighed at the end of March and she?d dropped from 50th to almost 25th centile. I had been worried that this was the case as she just didn?t seem to be wanting much from me (before 16 w/o she?d eat from me for 40 mins a time).

So there is this issue but then there?s the napping. She sleeps through the night no problem but naps are getting harder and harder to put her down, I suspect she is hungry. I just don?t know how to feed her, I am soooo flipping confused. I try to put her down for a nap and she just won?t, she doesn?t even cry, she just plays with her feet. She now rolls onto her tummy and looks out of the crib at me. I have tried, singing, rocking, staying in sight/out of sight, holding her and singing, baby massage, putting her down when she first rubs her eyes and yawns (after 45 mins of getting up, 5 mins later she is fine though), putting her down when she is majorly grumpy, a little bit grumpy, not grumpy at all etc etc. She will only go to sleep if I feed her to sleep.

My latest test is trying out a full day of formula so y?day she had 7oz five times a day (like the box says) and she was fine. I was planning on giving it to her at 7, 10, 1.30, 4.30pm & 7pm to tie in with meal times when I start weaning her soon but when I tried putting her down for a nap without any food at 9:30 she wouldn?t have any of it ? all of the above happened. So by the time it hit 10:30 I decided to give her 7oz and low and behold she went straight to sleep. So the pattern was:

Wake up at 7am
7am ? 7oz
10:30am ? 7oz
11:00 ? 12:00pm ? Nap
2:30pm ? 7oz
3:00 ? 4:00pm ? Nap
5:30pm ? 5oz
7pm ? 7oz
Bed
She?s 5m/o now and I was planning on stopping BF at 6m/o but besides the fact that actually I want to carry on now I am at a loss. I feel as if I should switch to formula. I?m so worried she?s not getting enough from me because all she seems to do is snack from me, look up and smile and then get distracted (tried in the dark too). I tried a day of no formula and not only did she not sleep (apart from when I took her out in the buggy) but she was so miserable and would hardly eat anything from me all day long, then she cried because she was hungry but when I offered her BF she?d eat for 5 mins, stop, smile and refuse anymore, so I would stop and then she?d cry and be grumpy!!! I don?t want to talk to HV they have caused me nothing but misery with their bad advice. I am getting more and more upset about all of this. I don?t want to have to feed her to sleep, I know it?s not the worst thing in the world but what on earth do I do when she?s 1 or 2 and will only take naps with milk??! Plus if I feed her to sleep then how do I wean her, food when waking up (so before milk) beause I thought people generally give them milk and then food and hour or so later?

This is starting to consume every single last bit of me now and I?m fed up, DD is fed up with me being fed up and DH just says ?um I don?t know, do what you think is best? arrrghhhhhhhh!! I feel like the worst mum in the world not know how to feed their baby.

Ok I can't say what exactly is going on with your dd, from what you say I'm not surprised you are feeling confused and stressed - have you given one of the helplines a call or a bf support group, they are not just for newborn worries. As you say with the formula top ups etc the weight could just be her levelling off to her natural weight or it could be a cause for some concern. I think you do have to go off her appearance (skin etc) and nappy output not just weight though.

Few things:

Feeding to sleep is normal and loads of babies do it and then it stops working when they get older - cue panic of how the heck do we get them to sleep now! Ds stopped (and then started again at 18 months) but can also be got to sleep in various other ways from about 9 months when we started trying other stuff so dh could do bedtime.

16 weeks is a classic age for distractibility. My ds was certainly like this and what helped us was bf lying down in a darkened room. It passed after a few months as he was able to look and feed at the same time.

Also as they get older they often do tend to cut down the time they bf for as the suck gets more powerful. And the breaking off to smile at you is just one of the cute things that babies do. Are you then offering the second breast or going back to the first one if she breaks off from the second one?

Its quite common for babies to pile on loads of weight in the first few months and then the weight gain to slow down around 5 months. Like I say may be normal for your dd but technically I think a hv would take note of a drop of two centiles.

If you want to carry on bf I'm sure someone with more experience could help you sort out how keep going and cut down the FF. It certainly has its advantages when they are older eg bf helps my ds with teething pain. I think you need to work out what you want as well as what she seems to want.

Ok so do you want to carry on breastfeeding.

If so then a few things you mite want to consider.

Baby's feeds often get shorter as they get older and they become more efficent at feeding. They often become distractable and look around during a feed as they become more aware of there suroundings all normal.

As you've been offering topup's your supply may have dipped a bit, but this can be got back by a few day's of excuslive feeding.

You say she's sleeping through the night but she's only having 6 feed's in 24hours. This is on the low side, most baby's feed at lest 8-10times in 24hours so feeding more often is a good idea.

I don't think she would be sleeping through the night if she was really hungery. Espicaly not at 5months as this is quit young for a baby to be sleeping through.

Do you have her in a sort of routine or are you following her hunger cue's. Does she feed from one or both sides? You can offer multiple sides at a feed first, seconed, third and forth so on untill she losses interest completly. This will give her more milk and help up your supply.

It is normal for baby's to drop or clime centiles they are just a guide and aslong as your baby seems well in herself, meeting all her milestones and HV is happy then nothing to worry about really.

As for the feeding to sleep thing they normal just grow out of feeding to sleep at some age no need to worry about it to much. You can try other methers of getting her to sleep but it may be worth waiting untill she's a little older and trying again.

Will she not sleep in a puschair or sling if your really strugling to get her to nap during the day?

Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to read my lengthy post, let alone take the time to reply. That in itself has made me feel a bit better.

I haven't called a BF helpline, I'm somewhat reluctant because I'm worried they sway me to BF rather than working out what's the right thing to do. However, I will give them a try, anything is worth a try.

When DD stops to smile I offer the same breast several times and then the next and then switch back and forth but she's just not bothered, at the most she'll latch on and then back off again, like it's a game! I know that they do get more efficient at eating but it appears to me that suddenly she's only taking 5 mins and her centile has dropped - I know they do BUT she's now dropped (almost) two.

Do I want to keep BF? I don't know. I think what I would like is to BF apart from the bed time bottle which gives DH so valuable baby time (which he hardly gets). I have tried expressing for this but only get 1oz at a time when I express so I have never been able to keep up.

I know you see women say "my supply has gone down" and they get told that it's unlikely but I feel pretty confident that it has. Not only is she not really feeding from me at 7pm but she doesn't eat again until 7am. She only seems to be snacking during the day too - this is just mothers instinct. I appreciate what you say but you know when you have a feeling.

That said, her nappies are frequent and heavy with plenty of yucky ones too. She is happy and content, most people say that they have never seen a baby so happy. She is a little bouncy ball and rarely cries (sure this will change) so she must be happy. She's been sleeping through the night since she was 11 weeks with the occasional hic up but then all goes back to normal.

I appreciate that the number of feedings seem low but I don't see how I can fit any more in. If you have any advice or ideas they would be welcome. They say feed every 2-3 hours, that's what I'm doing, but I feed on demand (apart from when I did the day of formula test) which fits in with the 2-3 hours.

I haven't seen a HV since she was about 9 weeks old. When we take her to get weighed I have been ignored the last two times and told just to get on with it, in fact last time I asked for some clean tissue (rather than one with another babies poo on) they sighed at me. I have been given bad advice from the get go by midwives and health visitors and I don't trust them. I'm sure there are some lovely ones out there but ours at not so great. I just feel like I'm going through this all alone and making all the wrong choices.

You have put my mind at ease about the napping but I am at a loss of what to do about the feeding. My mum suggested weighing her on our scales for the next couple of weeks to see how she is getting on and then I will take her again to get properly weighed. I'm terrified they're going to think she's neglected and get SS involved or something.

Don't worry of course they woun't get SS involved the most they would do is refure you to a pediatrition if they though there was an issue with her weight. But generaly they don't worry unless a baby has droped more then 2 centile's. which she hasn't.

Weighing her on your scales is a bad idea, they are not acurate enough to chart the small changes in weight of a baby this age. A healthy happy baby only needs weight once every 4 weeks at the most.

Please don't feel you can't ring one of the helpline's they are there to help no matter what your choice on feeding is they are trained to give impartial advice and will help you with stopping if that is the right thing for you.

Fitting in extra feeds should be quit easy you can offer at lest every 2hours which should your then feeding 10 in 12hours.

Really nothing you have said make's me think you have low supply. espicaly as baby is happy and still sleeping and having lots of wet/pooing nappies. It really is possible for her to feed for 5minues and have a full feed. I do think a chat with a BFC would be a good idea to reasure you on this.

Lot's of women can't easily express and it's no indication of supply either so if your choice is to give formula for that last feed that's fine.

I didn't manage with breastfeeding, but from reading your routine, have you tried giving your baby a small amount of formula first to take the edge off the hunger, and then breastfeed afterwards?

My issue was by the time DS was hungry he was crying too much to concentrate on latching on. I think if I had offered him my boob before he was hungry, he would have got the hang of breastfeeding, and it would have increased my milk.

If you choose not to continue breastfeeding, then don't feel bad, 5 months is really good! Your baby might start gaining more weight once you start weaning?