Have I spoilt his virgin gut?

[ag123]

I will proudly announce to anyone that my ds (now 3 m/o) is ebf. However this isn't strictly the case...he was born by emcs and I was quite poorly afterwards due to an infection. It took about 4 or 5 days for my milk to come in,and because he was 'such a big baby' as the midwives kept telling me (11lbs) there was a question raised as to whether I had had gestational diabetes all along (which I of course didn't-he is just big and perfectly in proportion). So the midwives started insisting that I 'top him up' with formula as he was so unhappy and obviously hungry. I strongly resisted,but by about the third day a paediatrician came in and told me what an irresponsible mother I was being and ordered the midwives to take his sugars,which had by that stage dipped just below the safe levels. So anyway, we did finally give him maybe 3 cup feeds before my milk finally came in,and obviously not again since. Anyway,I have recently come across some articles about the 'virgin gut' of an ebf baby, and how it will be much more conducive to just producing the good bacteria in the gut. So is it once ruined always ruined,and could I just as well be giving him some formula now (of course not that I want to,but would it be the same effect?) (and I obviously realise all the other benefits of breastmilk and have complete confidence in it)

No, I agree and like I said above I would do it again given the same circumstances. Thank you particularly to organiccarrotcake for your post-it really made sense to me.

Funnily enough formula isn't the now recommended treatment for low blood sugar - formula switches off the neonate's alternative fuel sources (e.g. free fatty acids, pyruvates, ketones, etc) and makes them rely on glucose alone.

This means a neonate on formula can have the same blood glucose as a breastfed neonate but the breastfed baby can be fine but the formula fed baby can be at risk of hypoglycemia's effects as they don't have these alternatives to use. Also, the by-products of these alternative fuels end up as being processed into surfactants (the chemical that helps lung function).

My local hospital has recently changed it's Hypoglycemia policy so rec bfing direct, expressed colostrum or 8-10mls of formula only if mother is unable or doesn't want to provide colostrum, and have changed from measuring by BM stick to using a lab machine as BMs aren't accurate at such low levels (2.2 is borderline but 2.7 is fine IIRC and BMs aren't designed for very low BS but high ones). So formula does have it's place in treating hypoglycemia but it shouldn't be a first line treatment (unless no colostrum available or not in sufficent quant).

Lots more technical data here - scroll down until you find the big circle with the Krebs cycle in it (looks a bit like a bangle with beads on it!).

Obviously this is done and dusted now and we can't go back and re-write history in light of newer knowledge (otherwise DD1 would have had a different first 2m!) but useful to know for future babies.

Younger mother I never said mixed feeding was dangerous, ff is safe but there are measurable different health outcomes... If there were no differences we wouldn't pressure ourselves to bf.

Truth sweet your hospital has the same sort of policy that ours does, introduced by a proactive paediatrician up to date with the evidence based research. different policies don't reflect 'medics being bastards' but do reflect on the team, there are a few regional strategy groups aimed at maternity and neonatal teams doing the leg work for them in terms of presenting best practice so hospitals can catch up with best practice.

It's all about the info shared and the respect given to mothers to use the information to make their own decisions, I think hospitals vary on this more than anything.

Are any of the hospitals which you would regard to have best Practice in relation to these matters London based?

Not my region so not on same boards...dunno, God would hope some do!

So how can you actually find out a hospital's policies with regard to different issues then I wonder?

Mine is in the SE and I found out about the new policy by attending a Bfing conference for HCPs & Bfing support volunteers with-in the local area - it was presented (and written) by DD3's paed.

Or you could join the MSL committee that your hospital could direct you to, the maternity services covered can be wide ranging and should give you a big voice whilst you find out about all sorts. They can be chaired quite differently but most are good.

Really don't beat yourself up. There is so much pro breast feeding propaganda out there these days which seems destined to make mothers feel inadequate if they give their child a drop of formula and it seems to me it is mostly advocated by breast feeding fundamentalists - if you are a true scientist you expect your research to be questioned and criticised whereas all these aggressively pro breast feeding gurus have made it politically incorrect to even question the breast feeding line - making me inherently suspicious of them. In just the same way that the formula companies have an agenda so do these people so I never trust a fundamentalist (on either side of the argument!).

My milk also took over 6 days to come in but because we weren't in hospital it wasn't picked up as a problem until he was weighed at day 5 when he had lost over 17% wt from birth. On admission he was acutely dehydrated to the point that he was in acute renal failure and had a sodium level in his blood so high he was at risk of fitting. He needed a v small amt of top up for a few feeds (and fluids) until my milk came in. I also (in my post partum hormental state) got a bit worried when I saw such propaganda but 14 weeks down the line with the hormones (slightly) subsiding I know it was most definitely the correct thing to do. My son could have been at serious risk otherwise with much more far reaching consequences.

Breast feeding, when it works is likely to be the best option but formula can be a lifesaver. Think of all the people you know who were brought up on a majority of formula - and they've done ok. So will your child.

I am breast feeding but have 3 nieces & nephews who have all been exclusively formula fed from birth and do you know what - they are all wonderful healthy children and don't even have 2 heads or anything (as you would expect if you believed the propaganda!!).

As for the person who thinks doctors are evil people who just want to push formula....please! These people do not go to work to make people's lives miserable but do see the serious consequences of untreated medical conditions, which are far more serious than the v small possibility of formula having any lasting affect on the gut.

Rant over.
Say well done to yourself for every time you manage another breast feed but if you decide to switch to formula hey ho, that's your choice and go with it.
M x

www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/apr/09/nhs-blunders-babies-brain-damage

The other side of the story: we are so quick to criticise when things go wrong and your paediatrician may have been thinking of such cases.
Much better a formula top up than this sort of outcome.
M x