Weight loss in breastfed baby

[TabithaChanges]

Dd is nearly 4 weeks old, still not back to birth weight. She lost over 10% then at next 3 weighs had put on little bits however today she has lost 4.5 ounces since last week.

She has thrush and I started giving her the medicine last night I think it is on her bottom as well so have asked dh to buy something so don't have to return to gp.

I am feeding with shields , but have been since first few days due to flat nipples making it hard to latch.

I did want to go to a local bf group, but basically I called and said I had a toddler too and it seems you can't really bring them and I have no childcare.

I look at how to latch etc on net but it's hard to see.
My health visitor said as she has wet and dirty nappies the quality of my milk may need to improve so I should eat and drink more.

I hate to think of her being hungry and distressed and I feel she is but I would rather avoid formula top ups. I was so happy she was putting on weight even if little bits now I feel :(

Anyone know the most likely explanation , I spend nearly all my time feeding. She is on for an hour then 15 mina rest then back on. She screams in her pram and hardly sleeps in day!

:( oh Tabitha.....can you change your HV??

It is massively ignorant of her to suggest your milk quality may be at fault and that this is connected to your eating and drinking - really, this is so wrong and no one purporting to help mothers should be in a job if this is what they think.

It sounds to me that you and your baby are just not happy - screaming and not sleeping and losing weight is a serious situation for your baby, and you desperately need real life help to fix this.

The shields will not be helping with milk transfer or production.

Suggestions:

• is there an infant feeding specialist in your area?
• is there a bf clinic?
• call one of the bf helplines, but to be honest, while they will give you support and ideas for further help, this situation is more serious than most would be able to deal with (I'm a breastfeeding counsellor and I would be very concerned about you, and I'd be pointing you in the direction of specialist help, too)

I have to dash now, but I hope you get help asap.

You need some RL support. Do ring the helplines, they can provide excellent support over the phone. Also, ask your GP, midwife team, health visitors, local NCT or LLL group about possibility of a home visit from a BF counsellor, they can be tricky to track down because of cuts; but explain your situation. I find it surprising and disappointing your group does not welcome older children. Maybe you could arrange to go for last 15 mins of group to avoid disruption, if that's what they are concerned about.

Sympathies on the weight issue. Been there and it's incredibly stressful. Babies don't get as much milk via shields, if used long term, I understand.
Be kind to yourself and don't get undermined if you want to carry on with BF.

Everything tiktok said and also very annoyed your BF group isnt welcoming. So really only first time mums of people who's children are at school can regularly attend.

Is there another group you can go to?

As ever, excellent advice from tiktok, which I x-posted with.

Tabitha - I had a similar problem with DS1 and also felt that support was lacking. I felt the same about formula top-ups, but once I started doing them I was amazed to discover that DS's lack of sleeping and constant feeding simply vanished. I ended up being advised by a doctor that as DS' weight wasn't back to birthweight (and wasn't going up at all any more) by 9 weeks, I really needed to get more food into him and give myself a break. She suggested that I could still breastfeed for 15 mins each side at each feed, but then top up with a 7oz bottle of formula (as much of it as he wanted). Overnight he became happy and healthy-looking, he slept, both during the day and at night and had periods of being awake without crying or being fed - I could have cried with relief.

Do look for support (I now am bfing DD2 and finding it much easier having been given some excellent support in hospital), but bear in mind that each breastfeed is beneficial, you've already done really well and if you now need to use top-ups, that's okay.

How can I get real life support ? I would love to but they seem to be full of first time mums as the lady I spoke to was lovely but obviously frowned on me bringing my toddler. Anyway the group is on a wed and she will be weighed on the thurs. The health visitor didn't seem to think it was such a big deal but now I'm really worried. Does the thrush make feeding worse? She was putting on weight with the shields before so could it be them? Nobody has ever checked my latch midwife etc, nobody ever seems to suggest that.
I feel kind of empty like I don't make enough and the screams she does make me feel like she is so hungry, but I feed her for an hour and she still isn't full then 15 mins of crying and then feed her again , she never seems to not root unless she is asleep.

My DD used to root whenever awake, it was about 5 or 6 weeks before she was actually awake for reasons other than to feed. I'd ring La Leche League helpline and see if they have anyone that can come out to you. Also speak to your HV and see if they have anyone that can come out and see you; mine sent someone out to check my latch etc. There are helpline numbers here on mumsnet and they're also in the red book or paperwork that you were given by your MW or HV (I think).
I would feed her as much as she requests it, even if you think she can't possibly be hungry because she just fed, they only have tiny tummies and breastmilk is very easily digested.

Firstly go to the group and let them frown. You need support and they need to be more inclusive!

Are you drinking enough and taking care of yourself? Sounds daft but I know I never really did.

Is you baby feeding the entire time she is on or is she also on for comfort?

Shields can affect supply but also some people feed very well with them.

Tabitha, it is a 'big deal' - your baby is losing weight and is unhappy, and you have what sounds like a useless health visitor who is not giving either of you good care.

I've given you suggestions of where to go for help - the maternity unit will have numbers of any bf specialists you can see, or bf clinics, if your HV has not thought to let you know.

It may be your baby needs formula as a temp. measure to enable her to feed well and to get your supply up. It may be you need help to ditch the shields and to get a good attachment so your baby can start really stimulating your supply - if everything is as you say, I am gobsmacked your HV does not take this seriously.

Don't worry about eating and drinking - except as your own well-being. Neither has any effect on your breastfeeding and it is a red herring to worry about that.

You are right to be worried - and if the only place at the moment is the breastfeeding group, then just turn up with your other child, too, and explain mumsnet sent you :)

that you are finding things a struggle and not able to access help.

Just to add that if your baby has thrush- you will both need to be treated, can you get to the GP?

As tiktok has said, you need specialist help. It's annoying that your bfgroup is unwelcoming but to be honest, unless there is somebody there who is more than a peer supporter (an infant feeding specialist for eg.) then you'll get a good listening ear and some support, but no more than that. (and I say that as a peer supporter myself)

Hope you can get some help soon.

Feeding a lot and in response to the baby's needs is of course important with bf, but bf is more than that - the milk has to be there and it has to be transferred effectively so more can be produced.....just feeding for ages and ages is no good if the baby is not able to transfer milk.

Clearly your baby is getting something, and you are making milk, Tabitha, but my guess is that your supply has not been enabled to get established and be sustained.

What about your doc? You must be seeing a doc to get the scrip for the thrush, yes? Is the doc supportive and knowledgable?

Agree with you, crikey - the bf group may well not be enough. It could be a stepping stone to real help, though.....and it would also be a place to report on how useless the HV is being, too.

Hi criikey, my gp gave me a script for her thrush but nothing for me my dh had to buy cream for her bum too. I had heard the mum should be treated too but gp said nothing. If a breastfeeding group isn't enough support and my gp looked at her head circ chart when trying to plot weight with his fingers! So what else can I do who should I be asking for help.

tabitha, see my post of 19.18 for how to get help.

Your GP did what???! Looked at the wrong chart ??

The group may be fine - and they should know where other help is.

I will go to the group but my local one is on a wed soa long time to wait and she will be weighed next thurs. I feel worse now, it probably is bad but I thought it might be due to the thrush as the last 3 time she put weight on. I would cry but my Mum is here and I don't want to in front of her. :(

One point to check: sometimes, weight is not recorded accurately, and sometimes, babies are not weighed properly. It would not be the first time that a baby has gained weight but it has been recorded as a loss, or the baby has been weighed in a way that is not accurate - for instance, babies should only ever be weighed naked on digital scales. Anything else and the weight can't be trusted.

There is nothing to stop you calling the maternity unit now and asking for sources of specialist help - there is always someone to answer the phone! Explain your baby is 4 weeks old (still, technically, under midwife care) and you are concerned about her growth and where can you get expert help?

Leaving it a further week is not a great idea, IMO.

Ok tiktok thanks so much, I will call the midwife unit first thing tomorrow and ask them for help.

Tabitha- I know this is worrying for you, hang on in there though because you're going to get some help to sort it out.

tiktok is right that the weight loss could be an error, but even if it isn't then it was your HV who has let you down by basically ignoring a 4.5oz loss and telling you to drink and eat more.

When the dust has settled, you may like to consider a complaint against this HV- her poor advice is at best outdated, at worst - dangerous. She is in need of some urgent retraining.

Just to clarify about the group thing...in our area, the NHS have an infant feeding specialist who will sometimes come to the group but it will usually only be attended by peer supporters and another HCP called an Assistant Practitioner. The specialist will though talk to women on the phone and then arrange to meet them at a group if they need to see someone face to face. This is because we are quite rural and it saves on her driving miles and miles.

On final thought for a source of help (finances permitting) would be a lactation consultant. You can find one in your area from this website

I can't really offer any advice except to say try not to worry too much, you do need to take things seriously, but as long as you can get some good help you will both be fine.

The BF group I attend is run by a HV who has a special interest in BF. There is sometimes a Peer Supporter there (I am just training to be one) and both of these can refer you immediately on for any additional help you need and will have details of BF clinics near you. (clinics are different to the BF groups)

You could also look for a La Leche League meeting near you. They are only once monthly, but you could go to the 'toddler' one if either of these were on soon and they are definitely toddler friendly. They may also be able to send someone out or tell you where to get some RL help. Find your local branch online and ring one of their numbers.

Good luck.

Hi Tabitha, my DS was much the same.

He was also mildly jaundiced still at 5 weeks (which doesn't sound to be the case for your DD )but thought I'd mention it just incase as it was relevant to why he wasn't putting on weight as there was an underlying problem. Probably not the same at all for your DD but let me know if you 'd like any further info.

I have been to emergency gp this morning with dd. she examined her and said it is normal for her to lose weight as the thrush will make her feel unwell. She wrote a script for some cream for her bottom thrush and said if her mouth doesn't clear up to return. She said to weigh her on thurs again. I tried to call the hospital post natal / ante natal clinic but got no answer.

Should I do more than this ? My midwife was at my gps and I have been discharged.

It's good the doctor did not spot anything urgent or anything that suggested your baby was poorly, Tabitha.

I am at a loss, sorry. Continued slow weight and then a weight loss in a baby of this age is not something to be relaxed about. The people who have seen your baby and have a fuller history disagree that this is anything that needs more than a further weighing next week.

My feeling is that this is not protective of your breastfeeding - especially as you have made it clear you want to continue breastfeeding - or of your baby's well-being....so maybe a call to the maternity unit and/or a referral to an infant feeding specialist would be useful to you.

It's a judgment call for you, now.

Hope things work out.

Hi tiktok, I'm not relaxed about it. I don't understand why the gp and hv are either. She cries all day unless I'm feeding her but after 2 hours of "feeding" she is still chewing her hands and crying after 10 minutes. I think the post natal clinic where she got weighed before must be shut as they don't answer.

I text a woman who I called a while ago who ran some bf groups as didn't like to call over Easter weekend so will see what she says. Dd has done 2 poos today and had a massive explosive poo yesterday so she must be getting something but she always seems hungry.

As I've suggested before, Tabitha, best source of info now would be the maternity unit (they never close :)). They will know where to refer you if there are any infant feeding specialists linked to the hospital - you could give them a call.

Ok thanks , but I have tried the number a few times, im not sure about ringing the actual labour ward they are so short staffed I waited 7 hours to get induced and they were too busy too reinsert my pessary so doubt they have time to talk about my feeding issues, they are quite abrupt with you too which isnt great.

Im thinking perhaps I should just move her onto formula as it seems my boobs have nothing in them which is probably due to me using shields. I feel like she is wasting away, she looks grey and thin in her face compared to the pics when she first came home :(

Thanks for all the advice , I would love to breastfeed , I don't even care that it takes ages but she doesn't seem to get enough and I can't latch her without a shield so pehaps the best thing for her is formula so she is full and happy?