3 day old DD can't stay awake through breastfeeding

[ardenbird]

I know we're super early days, but 3 day old DD keeps falling asleep when feeding. She was an EMCS but seems to be doing really well re BF: she fed for one hour as soon as we got into the recovery room, has kept it up well, and my milk is already starting to come in.

But this falling asleep is maddening. She latches on and sucks, soon her eyes close and soon after that she appears to drift to sleep. I'm pretty sure she's asleep as occasionally she'll do those little sleep jerky movements. I'm worried she's not getting enough in these 'sleep sucks' and as things progress I wonder how I'm going to tell the difference between emptying a breast and just falling so deep asleep that she stops sucking.

In the hospital (came home late yesterday), I asked once after she had been sleep sucking for half an hour if I she was getting anything and if I should leave her there, and they said it looked like she was and I should. I can't tell myself yet the different kinds of sucks nor identify swallowing.

She sucks for long periods of time, and often wakes up only shortly after finally falling off. She seems to only wake to want to get back on. I'm finding it hard to find time to do things like pop to the loo in between feeding sessions, much less get any sleep. She gets agitated very quickly and too upset to get a good latch if she is left too long wanting a feed. If I move her very soon after she falls off, that tends to wake her up, so I am often stuck for many hours without being able to get up all. And when I finally do, DH is often comforting a screaming baby while waiting for me to come back from the loo.

I've tried: nursing in full baby grow, skin-to-skin with her nappy-only, with just the vest on (my breasts are very large and I was wondering if their heat on her bare chest was lulling her to sleep - I've been nursing in rugby hold because of the C-section), her nappy-only with a cellular blanket between my breast and her (same idea as previous but she should be even cooler), stroking her arms and legs, tickling her ear, feet, and side, and even showing her videos for babies from YouTube on the iPad (big geometric black and white designs moving about). So far she just keeps falling asleep.

Help?!

And, I guess, my utter lack of sleep aside (and ability to do things like those exercises the physio gave me for the C-section), is this a problem for her, or is it okay if she mostly feeds asleep? My gut says she should be awake, but I really have no idea.

Mmmm some babies are very sleepy at first and I remember ds having a big growth spurt at 2-3 days where I could not put him down! It calmed down though again.

I've also heard that CS can make babies more sleepy (not every baby) in the early days but it will subside.

I'd keep baby with you, let her feed and sleep as it'll help you recover in that it forces you to rest. Very important. How are her nappies? Can you get on the phone to a BF helpline?

Well done you, you sound like you're doing brilliantly to me

Firstly, at 3 days old, you're new baby will feed a lot. I don't think many of us are prepared for just how often and long most new babies feed for.

As for whether your baby is sucking effectively and getting enough milk, the best measure is to look at the output! A newborn baby should be producing at least 6 heavy wet nappies per day, and you should see mustardy yellow poo (though poo frequency can really vary). Your midwife and/or health visitor should be asking you about output and advising accordingly.

Signs of effective sucking include a nice big mouthful of breast being taken by the baby, slightly rolled back lips, rounded (not hollowed) cheeks throughout the sucking, signs of swallowing (sometimes their ears move when they swallow, sometimes you can see the throat/neck move, often you can hear the liquid swallow down), and it shouldn't be too painful for you. Your nipple shouldn't be misshapen at the end of a feed either, as this is a sign that your latch could be improved.

If you want someone experienced to observe a feed and help you identify the signs (good and bad) to look out for, you could try to find a breastfeeding support group, baby cafe or peer supported near you. Children's centres are often a good place to ask about these, though your midwife/HV should know about them too. There are also some telephone help lines run by the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers, NCT, Breastfeeding Network and others, who could talk through these things and might know about local groups too.

This board is also a fab source of support. I spent a lot of time here in the early days of feeding for hours (and hours and hours and hours!). Very helpful ladies

Enjoy your new baby

Oo, I'm worried about the nappies. Since we've been home (maybe 30 hrs or so) she's had one muconium nappy, three really wet nappies, and one little-bit wet nappy.

Iggly, what do you mean by 'keep her with you'? Like when I go to the loo? I have a maya-type sling that was a present but haven't used it yet. So far I've been handing her to DH or a grandparent when I go to the loo. I've occasionally put her down in her crib when it looks like she might keep sleeping and that's when I've gotten a little sleep, in 15-30 min stretches. Once the first night for maybe 2 hrs! I'm hoping we might yet recreate that before morning.

I think we're still having some problems with the latch, although way better than when I started. It only hurts a little bit now, but the nipple is coming out misshapen (sort of oval and stretched - we started lipstick shaped, though, and that hurt lots). I've been very confused by various contradictory advice. And the local BF support lady specifically told me not to do the one thing that makes it not hurt, argh! I was planning on starting a thread on that, in fact.

Iirc bf counselor told me in first days one wet diaper per day old up to day 5. So 3 wet diapers for 3 day old. Plus poo will still be like tar right now. Takes a few days to clear the meconium. Excuse lingo, diapers=nappies obv.

Funnily enough I was reading this this morning.

ardenbird - do make sure your midwife visits today and watches a feed from start to finish.

Three day old babies really don't have a pattern or predictability, so it's hard to say from your post whether the feeding is 'normal' or not, but you'd expect the baby to feed effectively and frequently though there will be feeds that are short and which finish quickly with the baby dropping off to sleep.

Jnice I think you have misremembered about the nappies. Babies of 3 days old should be weeing several times and should produce heavy nappies, and the poo should be brownish-green by now.

Check all this with the midwife, OP - no one here can really tell what's going on. All could be normal but only someone there, observing you and the baby, will be able to get the full picture.

Try not to hand her over to other people (obviously you need the loo thus different) - there's a temptation to give in to other peoples requests for cuddles but if you keep her with you then you can feed her more often and watch for cues etc. I'd also use a sling yes.

As your nipple is coming out misshapen I'd get your latch checked. It can also be a sign of tongue tie - which could explain the sleepiness. Ie it's too difficult for her to suckle so she falls asleep tired. Did they check at te hospital? Get her checked again. Some MWs don't know what they're looking for so make sure they check when she is crying for example. It can really cause trouble with feeding.

Kellymom is always a good place to start for advice/concerns.

I found breast compressions helpful in stimulating sucking.

The first days/weeks are really really hard, not knowing what is right or how you are doing or who you should be listening to. I am sure you are doing brilliantly, it can be a hard slog but it does get easier (and easier, and easier!).

tiktok I haven't misremembered.

OP, check out the paragraph down the page on 'how do I know baby is getting enough':

www.mybrestfriend.com/about-the-pillow/how-to-breastfeed/

Jnice - I have rarely seen a more error-strewn and misleading website about breastfeeding!

I hope no one reads it and thinks the info in there is correct :(

Ardenbird - it is really difficult online to give any indications really. Newborns do feed very frequently and of course fall asleep because they get comfy. In the early days, both of mine just slept and fed, very little in between.

Ask the midwife to come out and write down nappy frequency / poos etc.

Visually, both my DSs I could see them swallowing. So their jaws moved back, almost like a wave movement, resulting then in swallowing. Then they might stay still for a bit, before then sucking again. I think there is a difference between the sleepy sucks and the swallowing sucks. The sleepy sucks I could see their jaws moving, but there wasn't that 'flow' of movement to swallows.I'm not explaining it very well but a decent breastfeeding counsellor should be able to show you that.

Just re-reading - meant to put ask the mw to come out and look at the feeding / weigh your baby (they do lose weight initially) and talk about the nappies a bit (you could write down and keep a note nappy frequency just to make sure none are forgotten, it's difficult to rely on memory 3 days after giving birth!).

Is she showing any signs of jaundice? If she is slightly jaundiced, it will make her more sleepy, which if she does not feed as often, the jaundice can get worse.
Is your midwife coming to see you today? If not, it may be worth requesting a visit.
If you have a sunny window you can sit at with her, the sunlight will help

tiktok my LC said that to me. I did not misremember, this was the first site I googled that backed it up. How can a newborn have 6-8 wet nappies when the mum's milk comes in at day 3-4? I think you need to check your facts and stop confusing them. The website is quite correct on that front but I have not read the rest.

Kellymom also says one wet diaper per day for newborn, as well as one dirty one. Meconium clearing by day 4.

kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing/

Jnice, you are derailing the thread.

I did not mention any particular number of nappies.

I said babies wee several times a day (which is true) . By 3 days there will be evidence of this - the nappies will weigh more ('heavy' nappies at 3 days is probably over-stating it, I agree, but the baby will certainly wee more than 3 x ).

Nappies are usually greenish by day 3, and less like tar.

Yes but you said I misremembered. I did not. You could just acknowledge that but never mind.

It's not my intention to derail, but OP's nappy experience for day 3 was within the realm of normal and I was trying to reassure her.

I shall go back to admiring my bfing 5 month old and put the iPhone down.

When I said you 'misremembered' I was being polite.

I agree the OP's wet nappies appear to be normal (though the mec should be changing by now - one mec nappy in 30 hours needs checking out).

Now you say you didn't misremember but are reporting what you have been told and what you read, then of course I acknowledge that.

Thanks NoteSpelling that blog post was very helpful - how I'd describe DD's pattern, except she doesn't seem to have extended awake (or and not screaming for food) periods between feeds.

I've got the MW by both today and tomorrow for the C-section care, so I'll ask her about nappies, and see if she can watch a feed. I'm feeling more confident she's eating at least something, as my breasts are feeling cool and soft after she's sucked and hot and stiffer beforehand. I'm guessing that means there's milk she's getting.

They did check her for tongue tie, after I described the nipple, so I think that's okay. And with a new technique I'm getting a different shape now.

I followed the video link from the breast compression site ThisIsYourSong linked, but can't view videos on the iPad, the only device I can use while feeding. I tried Googling for videos but not getting specific enough results - does anyone know of some videos showing drinking sucks vs not? (preferably YouTube as those seem to work)

I think I am keeping her with me - the only times I'm not holding her are loo trips and a few when we're both sleeping (another good 2+ hr tonight, yeah!). DH just took her for a full 8 minutes which enabled me to actually get dressed for the first time since coming home. I really would like a chance to shower, but if she sleeps this afternoon I want to as well.

And I think I better post this - I started replying at her start of feeding this morning 4 hours ago and all these replies pop up as I go...sorry if I haven't responded to everyone.

Try this ardenbird.

Hope the mw is helpful.

is also good. He has lots of videos on YouTube.