4th time lucky? Can i bf no4 after ff other 3?

[crackerscheeseandpickle]

I am currently pg with dc4 and wondering if I should try bf (again!) after not managing it with my first three - all for various reasons.

ds1 - this was probably down to lack of support. I had a lot of pain for 3 days before ds threw up what i though was blood (obviously it was from me) but when i called the mw i basically told that well you've managed a few days so it doesn't matter. Cue late night trip to 24hr asda to buy bottles, steriliser, formula etc and me feeling like crap. MW i saw in the morning said much the same thing.

ds2 - had no interest in feeding and wouldn't latch on at all. They wouldn't let me out of hospital as he wasn't feeding and since I knew that my PND is worse in hospital desperation had me giving him formula. What I didn't know then that i know now is that cause i'd had morphine/diamorphine? 2hrs before delivery he would be sleepy for a few days and he was also jaundice which apparantly does the same. No one thought to mention this so he was ff as well.

ds3 - I really wanted to try with him. But my problem that time was one i had with all three - the pain!! I know bf can be painful for the first few weeks until your breasts get used to it but really there were times when i thought i'd rather go through labour again than feed! My nipples get very tender when pg. I'm currently 13wks with dc4 and already my nipples are a no go area. I use one of those scrunchie things in the shower and it goes nowhere near my breasts, dp is banned from them and even my clothes rubbing on them can be painful.

Knowing this would the pain from bf ever go? Would I get used to it or would it always hurt cause that's just what my breasts are like? Also does it matter if I have quite full breasts and my nipples are quite flat? (Excuse the ignorance even after 3 kids!!) I wonder if the nipple would get far enough into their mouth to be comfortable for me - or was that a really stupid question?!?

My one last question is for those with 3/4/5 kids and whether logistically, having 3 older dcs, even if it did go well, would I have the time to bf?

Sorry for this rather epic post. I have a lot of q's but don't know anyone myself who breastfed - all my friends stopped rather quickly and FF.

I FF my first 3 DC from 10 days, 3 days and 3 weeks respectively. At the time I thought I just couldn't BF them (DC1 and 2 too big and too hungry and DC3 has Downs Syndrome so had to be exclusively fed expressed milk and my supply dried up when he was 3 weeks old) I then had twins very prematurely and although we lost them both sadly, one DT was in NICU and I got loads of great advice there from the hospital's BF counsellor/infant feeding advisor.

I am now EBF DC6 (obviously she is now on solids) and she is 9 1/2 months old. She has never had as single drop of formula. I am also training to be an NHS peer supporter. It is wonderful and although it makes me regret not BF my other DC, I obviously could only do what I could with the infomration and support I had at the time.

I opted for no pain relief except G&A in labour this time, as I wanted to do as much as I could to facilitate good early feeding, not least as I also had gestational diabetes. I also get very sore nipples when pregnant and when I was pregnant I couldn't imagine BF, the thought made me cringe, but it didn't hurt at all at first. We did have some latch problems and I had sore/cracked/bleeding nipples, but I resolved that myself. I think sheer determination kept me going in the early days though, so I don't think a dose of that will do you any harm!

I am certainly no expert on feeding with flat nipples, but I know it's certainly not contraindicative to BF. Your baby latches onto your breast, not your nipple, so if your baby has plenty fo your breast in their mouth the nipple (however small it is) goes well back past the hard palate to the soft palate and it shouldn't be sore. You certainly shouldn't get nipple damage and if you do then there's a problem which you can get corrected.

I would suggest getting as much info as you can before your baby is born. These forums are a great source of information. Also Kellymom and your local BF groups, I am sure La Leche and similar would be happy for you to go antenatally. Once I have finished the peers support course, I will be seeing/hopefully helping new Mums in the community to help and support them. In our area this scheme is called 'Best Buddies' and there may be something like it in your area? You could ask your midwife or health visitor about it? Attending BF support groups postnatally can help too as there are other Mums and usually a HV or similar with a specialist interest in BF that can help and support you. It's nice to just have other BF Mum's to vent at sometimes I find.

I realise I have spent a lot of time giving you my experience, I hope it shows you that it certainly can be done.

I would go along to a bf support group or find a bf counsellor to talk to before you have the baby. They'll be able to give you good advice and then you'll know where to find them if you need help when the baby comes.
If feeding is unbearably painful then nipple shields can be useful as a last resort (though I don't think you can use them before your milk comes in)

If you can, find a local breastfeeding cafe in your area, and see if they know of any expectant parent breastfeeding workshops and go along with your DP/DH. We went to one and it really helped I think because you understand better how breastfeeding works.
It wasn't painful for me the first few times but then my nipples went black and it was soo painful! There was nothing wrong with my latch either but they said she had a very strong suck but plenty of lanisoh and pretty soon it got a lot better. Bits actually dropped off my nipples in the end (the black bits) but they never bled or cracked so I think I was lucky (even though I fed through gritted teeth when she used to latch in the beginning). I think I just had very big boobs and nipples and with her tiny mouth, she just couldn't get as much boob in.
But the pain really did only last a few days, I'm sure that by the time I came out of hospital (day 4), it wasn't hurting anywhere near what it was at the beginning and now I don't really feel pain unless her latch slips but even that is nothing compared to those first few days.
I only have DD so don't know what it's like to BF when you have other children to look after but I was pretty much sofa bound for a good few weeks.

I did not really bf my 1st 2 -
ds1 for 3 weeks but tbh that was never established in that time. the whole thing was a disaster!
ds2 - mixed fed since about day 2, did bf him now and again until 2 months but really it was definitely majority ff.. think i did not really give it a proper chance bc of experience with ds1

now ive got ds3 hes nearly 8 months, im still bf him, he never had ff at all. somehow it just kinda worked this time. i would not have imagined b4hand that i actually would be able to do it but i did! so u never know

but i agree mayb wprth going to a bf support group to c if they give any good suggestions for u to know before you start with him?

Thanks for the replies.

midori thanks for telling me your story. I'm impressed you bf so successfully that your now helping others. Can I ask how you managed with your older dcs? Establishing bf seems to be a time intensive process and I wonder how I would manage school runs and ds3 who will just have turned 2 when the baby is born.

Everyone else, thanks. I think I may just have to grit my teeth and put a bigger effort into getting through the pain. I have a mw app in a few weeks so will ask about support groups then. A lot more research is needed i think.

Why is something that is meant to be so 'natural' so bloody hard?!?

I FF my first 3 and breastfed dc 4 for 14 months. I am not breastfeeding dc5 who is 7 weeks. I didnt try at all to breastfeed dc1 and 2. Dc 3 i made a half hearted attempt but was really unsure she was mixed fed for a couple of weeks but it was mostly formula tbh i just couldnt get her to latch on and she was jaundiced it just didnt happen. Dc 4 i just decided to do it i didnt make anymore effort than for dc3 but it just went right - no idea what was different.
Good luck!

Hi! Just wanted to add my experience, as it's very similar to yours!! I tried bf with my first 3 dcs- didn't work out- pain etc. along came dc4 and at 9 mo, he's still bf. I also had a lo, just turning 2 when dc4 was born. I have to say that establishing bf was time consuming, and a big commitment. I had the same issues with latch and pain, but got help this time from a bf counsellor and mumsnet was fantastic too i had to be well organised with everything close to hand- books, blocks etc for 2 yr old, snacks and juice for us both, but once I did that things got easier. I also drafted in help from my sister, I paid her to clean and keep on top of the washing, 2 days a week and this really helped too. I used the money I was saving by not paying for my usual childminder, as I was on maternity leave anyway. I found that I really had to let myself go with the flow ( lots!), and I informed the school that I was bf a newborn, and that being on time could be hit or miss- school was really understanding about it. I'm so glad we've gotten this far, and in the early days I took it 1 feed at a time, never thinking I'd get this far! It can be done, if you get the help you need, and expand your knowledge on bf as much as you can before your new baby comes. Good luck

I FF my first two after a few weeks as struggled with pain and with DS2 confidence.

DD is my third and am still bfing at 9 months. She is an ardent bottle refuser so we will be going until at least a year.

My advice is, apart from getting yourself to a bf group where you know you will receive support is get on here and read all the threads about problems other people are having and the advice they receive. I have found that knowledge is power when it comes to feeding.

I read all I could on bfing before DD was born, this meant that little hiccups and problems that came along I knew what to expect and how to fix them.

You really can do it. Good luck.

Would echo what Mampig said about taking it one feed at a time. My lovely HV runs our bf group and she said sometimes that is what you need to do.

I will also say that even though I very much wanted to bf DD I never in my wildest dreams imagined I would still be feeding now and it feels great.

milkmatters.org.uk/2011/04/15/hidden-cause-of-feeding-problems-however-you-feed-your-baby/ - may be of interest given your history x

Hi, I am still BF 10 month old dd and NEVER thought I would after the first few weeks when I was in tears from the pain.

Echo everyone, Mumsnet is brilliant for support and advice. I'm so glad it worked out for us and TBH I decided to view it a bit like pregnancy (which I hated) as something worth going through for the end result. Now I am dreading having to give up.

Who knew :)

Good luck, whatever happens :)

Sorry have been off for a couple of days but thanks so much for all your replies.

5dcs, Mampig, Eglu I'm really pleased to hear from someone who bf after ff their first children. I know it can be done! I do know I'm going to have to find all the support I can. A couple of family members have commented along the lines of why bother, you ff the first 3. And dp, whilst supportive whichever way I go, won't necessarily be encouraging when I feel down about bf (which I'm sure will happen at some point).

Thanks all, will be looking to local groups, meetings etc in the next few months.

Just thinking.... While my dh was supportive, there were (and still are) times where we battle- esp where broken sleep is concerned. I've had to think about it from his point of view: ie. if ff was ok for the others, then why not this one??. Also, bf didn't come easily this time either, and dh was upset, seeing me in tears at the start. I found that the more I educated him about the health benefits of bf, for ds and me, it diffused any potential arguments. So, the more u are armed with information the better! Good luck with it all!