Please help. Where am I going wrong?

[kansasred]

Sorry this is so long... DC2 was born 4 weeks ago.

I thought feeding started off well but deteriorated quite quickly to the point that she was only doing very short feeds (perhaps 5 mins over the course of an hour of trying to get her to feed). I put this down to her being jaundiced and just tried to keep going.

She was weighed on lots of different scales by different people and there was once a difference of 100g when being weighed on the same day by different scales (!). There were no concerns about weight from the professionals at this point but I knew she was not having enough and I was also worried about my supply. I breastfed DC1 well into toddlerhood so I felt I could trust my instinct on this.

She was diagnosed with tongue tie and thrush at 2 weeks by a midwife. We started thrush treatment (daktarin oral gel for her and cream for me) straightaway, and her tongue tie was also snipped on the same day by a LC.

We started on a 3 hourly regime of offering the breast, topping up with EBM by syringe, and expressing. It took a week after the tongue tie was snipped before she latched on again and this was only with nipple shields (1 week ago). Nipple shields introduced on advice of LC because she would not latch at all without them.

Thrush treatment stopped about the same time (we continued for a few days after the white stuff had gone from inside her mouth).

There has been no improvement at all in the last week so we are still on the 3 hourly routine and she is at best feeding for 10 minutes at a time but very very slowly and with milk dripping out of her mouth. She will only latch on one side (the nipple is a bit flat on the other side) and still only with a nipple shield.

We had a very bad day yesterday and I discovered the thrush has returned so we started the treatment again last night.

I don;t have any concerns about supply or weight gain now but she is getting almost all of her nutrition by way of a syringe.

We are still having help from the LC but I feel that we are not making any progress. I am now wondering whether she is ever going to feed properly and I am desperate to move things on.

What else can I do?
I am determined not to give up but this can't go on forever. Please help!

First of all, why is she feeding every 3 hours? I'd feed more frequently.

Did the LC give you exercises to do to strengthen her tongue?

Have you been shown the exaggerated latch? Works really well (I used it with dd post TT snip). Also try feeding in the biologicall nurturing position where you lie back and she is tummy down on you - you'll have to google as I can't explain very well!

Can you get someone to look after your eldest while you spend a few days keeping dd with you all the time and feeding at every opportunity? It takes time to reach new habits. Also I fed DS into toddlerhood yet with DD (DC2), I still made mistakes with latching on and positioning so needed that checking again at a BF group.

Thanks for replying.

We are doing it every 3 hours because this is what we were advised by the LC - because it takes so long to feed her, then syringe, then pump if we did it more frequently then neither of us would ever sleep and I would never eat or shower. She also does not want to be fed more frequently than this anyway. On the few occasions she has woken earlier we have started earlier. I also can;t feed her straight after pumping because I have to dry pump towards the end of the pumping session to keep my supply up, I know the breast is never truly empty but I dont want to frustrate her any more by putting her on and her not getting any reward IYSWIM.

We do the exercises with her and she sucks for the syringe feeds (finger feeds).

I have only ever used exaggerated latch (it's where you flip the nipple upwards isn't it?) though it's not really possible with nipple shields. The problem is trying to get her to open her mouth at the moment and stopping her arching her back/fighting the breast/coming off when she does latch, and getting her to do a proper feed.

I tried bio nurturing with no success- might give it another shot.

I actually have help at the moment with my older child thank god as I would not be able to do this without it. Every minute is taken up with the routine as it is.

I think my technique is ok - at least I have been told it is by several midwives and LC - just keep being told to persevere...

Ok so could it be something like reflux (if she's fighting the boob) or you have over supply (does she choke at all?)/over active letdown? Does your milk come flying out?

Does she feed when drowsy or asleep? I found that when ds was at his worse (and dd), if I could get them on when they're half asleep, they go by instinct more so easier to get them doing it right.

I have looked up the symptoms for reflux and I don't think it is this - she doesn't have a problem with lying down after a feed, isn't sick very often, and aside from when trying to get her to feed from the breast she is generally quite settled, she also doesn't usually have the same problems when finger feeding with the syringe. But, I think I will ask about this further...

Will try the feeding when drowsy - I spend a lot of time trying to get her awake enough to open her mouth so not sure it will work at this stage for us but worth a shot, thanks

Hello Kansasred. Please excuse me for replying, as I don't have experience of this, but something you said made me think of something I read the other day on a website called tonguetie.net it said that sometimes dribbling/a bad seal could be caused by a. Tight tie between the gum and upper lip, which can be present with a tongue tie. Here's the quote "
The tongue-tied baby may be found to be unable to make a good seal around the breast with his lips so that milk is seen to dribble from the mouth while sucking. This is sometimes due to the presence of a maxillary frenum - a prolonged or tight frenum between the upper lip and the upper gum which limits the flexibility or mobility of the upper lip - which can be present together with a tongue tie.