Is there any chance of healing now or is it time to give up?

[Anchorwoman]

We are day six and dd is doing really well at trying to feed. However my nipples are now way past just being sore. Both are bleeding from the whole of the nipple area and with deep cracks. One is looking as though part of the nipple has started to split away and the skin on both has gone dark brown and then peeled away leaving oozing raw bits. Sorry, graphic.
I have been absolutely determined to continue and have sought advice on latch many times both in hospital and after coming home. Was told uesterday and today that latch was perfect.
I am dreading every feed now and tbh wondering whether to call it a day. Feel so frustrated but even with air drying, industrial strength lansinoh quantities, expressing to alternate feeds with sip cup and constantly checking latch I am at my wits end. I just don't see any way they are going to heal now. Has anyone managed to come back from this stage and carried on? Absolutely any advice would be great, am feeling desperately frustrated and disheartened. It's also starting to affect the way I feel about being with ds, which is awful.

I can only imagine how you must be feeling.

Yes, you can come back from this and carry on if that's what you want. I was in a similar position at first, although one side was worse than the other. I used to brace myself for every feed, it was utterly excruciating. I found using the rugby ball hold hurt slightly less and I found biological nurturing didn't hurt at all. (you can google if you don't know what it is). As my DD latched herself on that way, I was absolutely terrified it was going to be agony, but it didn't hurt at all, not even one bit, so something must have been wrong with my latch, even though a million health professionals checked it and said it was fine.

I also found not air drying but applying gallons of lanisoh and using breast pads helped stop scabs forming, which stopped the bleeding/blood in DD's sick happening. It did take me a while to heal and I took paracetamol four times a day for four weeks, but it got much better after that.

DD is 9 months old now and I'm still feeding her. Those early days seem a lifetime away and it was sooooo worth it. I BF in her sling at the supermarket today whilst packing and paying for the shopping. Could never have done that with a bottle.

I was told not to let them dry out. My bf counsellor recommended moist healing. I expressed bm and rubbed into sores, then slathered in lansinoh, then soaked squares of kitchen roll in bm and laid on top, used the same breast pads for 24hrs at a time so they got really soaked with bm.

My nipples have healed okay compared to how they were (chunks falling off, deep bleeding cracks etc) but the damage was caused by a tongue tie in the first week. I expressed and bottle fed to try and give them time to heal and my son is now failing to latch on at all. I still have minor cracks and sores 1 month in and am now in the process of giving up attempting to bf. It has just been too painful for me. However, I do think it's worth giving your nipples a chance to heal - mine looked a hell of a lot better after 3 days moist healing & expressing, although I did have to top up with formula. You can then give it another go maybe?

Plus I think you need to see someone who knows what they are talking about - my bf counsellor told me that serious damage is only ever caused by a problem with the latch - it may look perfect but if your nipples are beginning to fall apart, it probably isn't.

It's totally possible. I have scars on both nipples from horrible holes that developed from cracks/sores in th early days. Even now milk jets out of my most damaged side at a very strange angle because of the scar tissue. DS is 6.5 months and we both still love BF.

Have you had checks for tongue tie? If the latch/position is "perfect" but you're experiencing pain something is not right. I'm on the fly but have a google for a lactation consultant who specialises in tongue tie (or ask your midwife or health visitor for an urgent referral.

Moist healing is best. In the end I took 48 hours time out on each side (hand expressing so I didn't get engorged or blocked. Pumping was too painful but by hand I could angle away from the pain) and fed solely from one side - your breasts will adjust as long as you express from the healing side frequently too. Try and find jelonet in your chemist (or send a kindly volunteer for some) - cut into squares big enough to cover the damage and change each feed/express.

Most importantly, seek real life help from either a lactation consultant or breast feeding counsellor. Midwives & HVs are woefully undertrained in breastfeeding.

Best of luck - it is horrible but you can get through with the right support.

Yes I too went through this, it is reasonably common. Get proper help from a bf counsellor. moist wound healing is brilliant as is rugby ball hold. I wish I'd known about biological nurturing.

I was like this the whole time I fed my son because every health professional I saw told me my latch was fine. With my second child, things looked to be going the same way - I still had sore nipples which wouldn't heal - but luckily, that time I had a HV who was alert to the issue of tongue-tie, referred me to a lactation consultant who not only dealt with the tongue-tie, but sorted out the thrush and bacterial infection going on, as well as helping with attachment. I went on to exclusively breastfeed her for 6 months, before weaning onto solids. I'm still feeding her now at 21 months. I'm not suggesting you've got the same issues as me, but it wasn't that I couldn't breastfeed, as I feared, but that I had an awful lot preventing me from feeding and none of the health professionals, whom I expected to be able to help me, could. So please take heart from the fact this is nothing to do with you, your nipples WILL heal when you get the right help.

At 6 days I'd be very surprised if you had all the problems that I got into, most likely at this stage the positioning and latch needs working on. Is there a breastfeeding support group anywhere nearby you can get to? They would be the best port of call first off as if you keep attending you can receive ongoing encouragement and support. Otherwise, a breastfeeding helpline might at least be able to offer further information and support. Best of all, if you could get it, would be a referral to a lactation consultant - it's worth asking the midwife for one, perhaps a talk with your trust's infant feeding co-ordinator (they are sometimes lactation consutants) - just don't give up until you and your baby get he help you deserve. Once the latch is sorted the nipples should start to heal quite quickly, within a couple of days.

Here's some info on how to improve your latch: kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

Right now, you can take paracetamol, 2 tablets up to 4 times a day to ease the pain before feeds, take about 30 mins before feeds. It sounds terrible but if you can bear to feed frequently then baby will be less hungry and less aggressive in feeding, and feed from your best side first so that the most damaged breast is spared the strongest sucks. In between feeds you can wear breast shells to stop your clothes.

More advice on what to do in the meantime to make life bearable:www.motherandchildhealth.com/Breastfeeding/Becky/cracked_nipples.html

If you notice pus in your nipples then they have become infected and you will need to see a doctor to get some antibiotic cream before they will heal. Likewise, if you notice white spots in your baby's mouth, or a whitish fur on his Tongue, alongside your nipple pain, then it's pokey you both have thrush and again, this will need to be dealt with before the nipples will heal. Look on the Breastfeeding Network website for their downloadable leaflet on thrush for more info on this.

Well done for persevering - you've done so well, you really deserve some help to keep going and when you get it, those nipples will heal, and you'll be on your way. Let us know how you get on.

Grumpla - sorry to contradict you slightly but leaving wet breast pads on can promote what's known as 'super-hydration' where the skin cells absorb too much fluid which causes swelling and on drying can cause yet more cracking (much like how pot holes form in roads after a frost). It can also promote thrush growth (if present).

Very gently dry the nipples of excess milk/exudate (the wet stuff that comes out of the skin when it is raw) and then apply a moist wound dressing like Jelonet (other brands on the market - ask your pharmacist for a moist wound dressing) OR lots of warm lansinoh or other medical grade lanolin and a clean dry breast pad can help nipples heal twice as fast as air drying and they heal with out scabbing (scabs can be sucked off by baby and this can lead to a bigger wound forming and so on....).

Can you call one of the bfing helplines (call from a landline to get put through to the most local BFC) or request a visit/appt with a bfing specialist at the hospital you delivered at (ask how much training they have - if it's only a few days in-house then, unfortunately, they probably aren't qualified to help) and get some rl help today/tomorrow (send OH down pharmacy asap though!).

You need proper support now. The support in many hospitals is crap so discount whatever they've told you. Phone La Leche and BFN and find a local support group as soon as you can. It is very obvious the latch is not perfect or your nipples wouldn't be in this state. The nipple should look exactly the same after feeding as before (well maybe a bit more soggy!) The good news is that you can get through it if you can find the right support.

Breastmilk is a great healer so try expressing and rubbing milk over your entire nipple.

Take paracetomol to help with the pain, plus a glass of wine and chocolate cake for their emotional healing properties. And get RL help asap.

Thank you for responding so quickly with such encouraging words, I feel a lot more motivated hearing your experiences. My in laws have been here visiting this afternoon so will be back ASAP to read your thoughts in detail. I honestly thought there was no way forward but I will take it one feed at a time for now.

Just had another thought! My nipples weren't as bad as yours but I did have major problems. Although it's not advised to express until breastfeeding is fully established, there were days I would have lost my sanity if I hadn't expressed. Knowing that I would get at least one or two pain-free feeds in a day helped me keep going on the dark days. Then one day, about 10 weeks, which I know seems a long way off but really isn't, I suddenly realised I was feeding without pain. From then on it was an absolute doddle.

I really hope you find a way through because it is sooooo much easier than ff, and studies have shown you get 20 minutes more sleep a night too!

I was exactly where you are 17 weeks ago, and I'm writing this as my DD drifts off to sleep after a big BF. You will heal and it is worth persevering, but I do remember what it's like to dread each feed. The thing that worked for me, and there's some controversy about this, was nipple shields. They gave me some respite from the pain, and also the peace of mind that no further damage was being done while my nipples healed. The NHS don't recommend nipple shields as some (quite old) research suggests they cause supply issues, although this
hasn't been true in my case. If I hadn't used them I would have had to stop BF as I was in so much pain, so even if my milk disappeared tomorrow DD has had 17 more weeks BF than she would have done without them!
The entire top of my right nipple disappeared, and I had a kind of volcano crater where it used to be, and in my case no amount of creams, wet healing, dry healing, etc. worked. No one could recommend anything else, and so at 6 weeks I stopped feeding from my right side for a week, as it seemed to me that the fundamental issue was that a big open wound was being sucked on 5 or 6 times a day! This allowed healing to at least start. At 8 weeks I finally got the GP to prescribe thrush medication, and after that it healed up quite quickly. By 11 weeks I was completely crack free! Again it's not recommended to take a break from feeding as early on as you are, but I think only you can decide what you need to do to keep going.

Good luck and hang in there - it's worth it. Baby Raspberry stops half way through a feed to have a little chat and cuddle with my boobs, and gives me the most beautiful grin at the end of each feed, and I'm so glad I stuck it out. And I second the recommendation of a glass of wine and your bodyweight in chocolate cake...

when my nipples were really sore i used breast shells and lots of lansinoh cream.

i found the shells helped when i could not bear anything touching them.

my nipples were not nearly as bad as yours

I hope yours get better soon

Gosh im in awe of all your willpower to continue, been in tears so many times today but what an inspiring thread.
Ok, just been on phone to lovely LLL advisor who was very encouraging and has given me a contact in my local area. Have left a message so hopefully I will be able to get that essential expert in rl as people here recommend.
Am also expressing now having just given dd a cup of ebm. It is clear how much they have been bleeding as I can see it through the pump, how grim. Poor dd has been spitting it back up again.
For tonight I will try nipple shields I think and see if a short break helps. I know there are different opinions on these so will bear that in mind.
Interesting what people are saying about air drying - I did wonder how this was going to help me as they were just scabbing over this morning. Think I will stop doing this now.

Good for you, I'm really glad to hear you're getting the help you deserve, it makes me so angry that proper help wasn't available in the first instance, none of us should have had to have gone through the experiences we've all discussed. Do go gentle on those nipples with the pump! You can always ask your advisor tomorrow to help you with hand expression if you're just doing the odd feed and you felt it appropriate, it'll hurt less.

Been trying to update all day, where does the time go? Got through the night with ebm and nipple shields and managed to feed through dds all night boob bonanza without further damage. Also saw LLL local councillor today who really kindly came to see me at home. Gave me a whole new way of thinking about bf based on letting dd take the lead. A bit scary, I have admit a bit of a white knuckle moment thinking she was just going to chomp down on me, but resulted in a 20 min pain free feed with no shield! I just have to try and do this myself now, but it has upped my confidence massively.
That and all the moral support you've given here has been a huge boost.
I also have contact details now for a LLL support group in my area and there is a meeting on Monday that I'm hoping to get to.
Right off to snatch a quick nap before pick up ds from minder. I also have choc cheesecake in fridge for later!

sounds like you are doing amazingly

well done

That's brilliant, I'm so glad, good luck to you both and I hope this is the start of a very long and happy breastfeeding relationship for you both. Hope you cracked open that cheesecake as a celebration is most definitely due!

The first few weeks are the toughest, get through them and you've earned the enjoyment of how different it is once feeding is established. It's worth getting through it, it can become such a relaxing pleasure for you both that you mightn't want to give up at all later on!

I used to let a bit of breast milk dry on my nipples after each feed, I also used an organic nipple cream from a health food shop. There was always some scabbing over in the first two to three weeks and then once the nipples toughened up it's gone. I remember with my first the district nurse asked how long I intended to bf and I said, don't know, maybe 6 mths (this was the first week in and I was wondering how anybody managed to do it) I wound up feeding for almost 2 yrs.

You're doing fantastic, things will settle out, good luck

My dd had a tongue tie and I got a crack in one nipple, and then thrush in both breasts. Horrendously painful to feel but I used nipple shields until the nipple had healed and they did help. They are not ideal as they can dent your supply and I think they probably did do that slightly in my case , but for a week or two while things heal they can be a Godsend. (i am still bf over seven years later- not the same baby though.)

Weigh in tomorrow with HV so I'm hoping it shows that she has been getting enough. Conscious that shields may have restricted supply or her ability to draw effectively as she seems to have taken much longer on each feed today. Hopefully getting latch sorted out will mean I wont need them for much longer though.
Your experiences of going on to bf happily after a similar start to me are helping me to focus as even another week seems such a big deal at the mo. - especially liking the supermarket checkout bf story, genius!

Your description of your nipples sounded exactly like mine were with DS. It's horrible, I know.

I used Advent nipple sheilds for a few weeks, which helped protect them from more damage while they healed. The midwife told me shields were 'not real breastfeeding' and she could not condone their use, but it was either that or give up.

Stopped using shields at about a month, and we then managed a further eleven months of breastfeeding.

Good luck