2 random breast feeding questions from total numpty first timer!

[feekerry]

Hiya. Due to give birth hopefully any day soon to my first. I know nothing about babies at all, tho i'm 100 % committed to breast feeding, I know that for sure. Couple of random questions tho, I was hoping to express a small amount so my other half can feed from a bottle. Was thinking just one a night. My friend recently did this from day one and got on really well. Is this a good idea? Is there a certain time I need to do this by for it to work? Secondly, is it a must that I avoid spicy food and alcohol when breast feeding? I'm a total novice at this! Thanks

you dont need to avoid spicey foods, and can have some alcohol

as for expressing, best wait until your supply is established.... as in the early days it is the night feeds that stimulate the milk to come in, and they are very important to establish supply...

good luck

Just wanted to say, do not be worried if you do have problems expressing - I was completely pants at expressing using a manual pump, but bfed all 3 of my babies up to at least 10 months no problem. AND used to leak milk but could not get it to come down for the pump

And, as the previous poster said, wait till your supply is established before you try to express regularly.

You can drink and any food is fine. Some babies have problems with certain foods but the majority are unaffected and it's only an issue if you notice certain symptoms in your baby. I'm teetotal so not sure if there's a recommended limit to alcohol but I know a glass of wine or similar is nothing to worry about. Bear in mind though that if you're planning on cosleeping at all then you must avoid alcohol.

Expressing is something you might want to think about once bfing is established at around 6 weeks. Particularly it avoids introducing a bottle too soon. Some babies find bottles so much easier that they prefer them to having to work at stimulating the breast. Once they're a wee bit bigger and feeding's established, most babies find it easier to switch between the two.

I fully recommend the kellymom website and joining a local bfing cafe if you have one.

Thank you, also, has anyone tried those collection cups for catching leaking milk? Do they work? A midwife suggested you can collected a bit of leaking milk in a collection shell then freeze in a ice cube tray or similar for use later?

I found www.kellymom.com very helpful when I started out.

I wouldn't bother expressing for a few weeks TBH. You will be tired and washing extra equipment and trying to express would be a PITA. Get your supply up and plentiful and then express.

i don't avoid any foods, but have a friend whose DS reacted badly to spicy curries. so just keep an eye on your diet if your DC gets fussy as this MIGHT be the reason. as for alcohol: totally avoided it for the first 3 months of bf as DS would feed v v often. now we're at 3 hour intervals and i sometimes (about 3 x a month probably) have a small glass of wine. i have it immediately after feeding him so that any effects it might have will have worn off by the time he's due again.
same for expressing, i'd wait until things are going well (at least 6 weeks) and then start slowly. this is just my personal experience but in order to express enough milk for one feed i need to express at least 4 times, so i don't bother with expressing regular night feeds. too much fuss IMO.

all the best for you and your LO!

I agree with the other posters about avoiding expressing if you can. However, it can be a life saver if you have any problems such as sore nipples, so don't be afraid if you have to go down that route.

Kellymom is a great site, with lots of really good information that is up to date and peer-reviewed/based on science. You will find that many HVs and health professionals are not quite so well informed and they may unintentionally jeaopardise your breastfeeding journey.

I also second the suggestion to find a group if you can. They can offer really great support.

And yes, you can have cake and wine. Sometimes they are the only thing that keep you sane - you won't believe what your appetite is like when you breastfeed.

It varies from person to person, but many people find expressing a total pita. Don't worry if you're one of them - it has no bearing on your supply but your brain will try to tell you it does (scumbag brain ).

I think just seeing how it goes is a great mantra for everything baby related, so how about seeing how expressing goes (although I agree that it's probably going to be easier on you to leave it a few weeks) and don't commit yourself to a bottle a day from day one.

Personally, I was v "good" at expressing and did do it from very early on because of lots of unrelated problems I was having. But even though I found it straightforward, it was still waaaay more of a pain in the arse than just feeding ds myself.

There are lots of things a dad can do to "bond" with his dc other than bottle feeding. Dh has been in charge of bath & bed from day one and five years on, it's a really special time for him and ds while bfs are well in the past. Tis a marathon this parenting lark, not a sprint (how many cliches can I get in one post?).

Alcohol in moderation is fine and I didn't ever notice any difference in ds no matter what I ate.

Good luck!

I expressed with all 3 of mine from about 1 week. With first it was because I was having trouble with cracked / bleeding nipples on one side and found it much less painful to express that side and give in a bottle until it healed (a couple of days) then, once I had got into the habit I found it useful to express and freeze milk regularly so that DH could give occasional bottle and did the same with next two babies which was great and worked for all of us. I found it best to express immediately after the first morning feed as I had most milk then - so DD1 would usually feed one side, then have a bit of a feed on the second side and I could easily express and freeze a few more oz from that second side. I also used milk collection cups regularly (especially during first feed of the day when I had most milk). My let down reflex was so strong that I found it a nightmare on the side I wasn't feeding from, it would go straight through a breast pad and I'd have to stuff muslins down my bra, so I got the collection shells initially to save my clothing, and then saw that I was getting up to 2 oz of milk at first feed of the day so I would freeze it (you can buy breast milk freezer bags rather than ice cube trays).

Drinking in moderation is fine. A small amount of alcohol does go into milk but it leaves it again as it leaves your blood stream. As such if you are going to have a glass of wine you are best to do so immediately after one feed so it has a few hours to leave your system before the next feed. I got caught out a couple of times when babies were a bit older and sleeping through the night and on a one or two occasions had a few drinks assuming I would be fine to feed by morning and then found that the baby woke up unexpectedly in the night (an unerring ability to sense that I had FOR ONCE been out!) and had to feed anyway - not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

I agree with everyone else, expressing is a PITA. I have never really got the hang of it. I would suggest getting some advice when you begin; the Breast Feeding Network is BRILLIANT for this. I got a little too vigorous with the hand pumping when nothing was coming out and ended up with damaged vessels. Think it is less likely to happen with electric pumps- Medela Swing is good.

Re bfing generally, make sure you get help with getting your latch on correct right from the word go. It will really save your nipples. I had no idea what I was doing and had bleeding nipples before I left the hospital. Once again, the BFN are sooo good; they came out to me at my home at least 5 times to make sure I was getting it right. And the midwives in the hospital aren't always the best people to advise on this, I came across a few who were really rough. Be prepared that it will be tricky to start with, but so worth it in the end. Finally, 3 very important words for you. LANSINOH. LANSINOH. LANSINOH.

Sorry to bombard you with unrequested advice, but I really wish I had have known to be more prepared and informed on how to breastfeed in the beginning, so feel I have to pass that on to everyone now!

thank you everyone, no bombard away olives, please, as someone who has no idea i'll be honest and say it all seems to natural and straightforward but i've read so much to the contray that obviously its not!
i've bought a couple of tubes of lansinoh!!!

Good luck feekerry!

Definitely agree with others on here. Get your bf established first and then express and give a bottle.

But at the same time, (IMO) ensure you do offer a bottle of expressed milk once it is established.

I see and speak to so many people that didn't offer a bottle at that 4-10 week mark (mostly because bf'ing was working, going great and expressing /sterilizing was a PITA etc) and then later down the line, baby won't except anything but breast- which becomes problematic for the odd hour off or night out etc.

I expressed early on as my supply was leaking everywhere fab and then I got mastitis due to latching issues from dd's tongue-tie. So around week 4 we introduced a bottle (same reasons as u) and she took it. I'd express about 8ish each night and dp would give the next feed after then. Around week 6 or 7 (so only 2 weeks later) dp wasn't that fussed on "bonding session" as he was doing lots of other things and I was finding expressing/sterilising a ball ache, so we stopped, thinking, oh well she knows how to take a bottle.

Boy were we wrong! Fast forward only 2 and a half weeks later and we had a wedding to go to, tried her on bottle 2 nights before- refused it. Kept trying, still refused, ended taking her to wedding. Following week, I get news that I needed to go an have an operation in day surgery due to retained placenta. We'd been trying her daily but to no avail. I postponed op until after a holiday and dp tried every day whilst away, still wouldn't take it! By now she was 12 weeks. The day before my op, she took it, thank god (we'd been planning to cup feed her whilst I was gone).

So, point of my long winded story (sorry ) try and introduce bottle once bf is established and then, don't stop! Since week 11 we've done a bottle every two or three days so that DD doesn't forget!

All the best with birth

Interesting choice of words there. During the first few weeks my mantra was that I couldn't believe something so 'natural' could be so difficult. I don't want to sound negative and put you off, as now my LO is 4 months old, we are still going strong (ebf) and it is amazing. So much easier than sterilising, so much cheaper than formula and no waste, as well as being able to fix all sorts of probs such as a blocked up tummy and an otherwise inconsolable baby just by lifting my top. We even just flew to Australia and back and DD was lovely and calm the whole way thanks to the comforts of BF.
BUT it is tricky to get the hang of the latch and it was the image on the below page on Kellymom (brilliant website) that finally helped me get it.

www.kellymom.com/bf/start/basics/latch-resources.html

Then it was all go!

About a week in, when I was wondering if it would ever get easier, someone on Mumsnet told me that things get easier after about 2 weeks, then will improve again after four and then by about 8 weeks all will be on its way to being great. It was so true! It all seemed to get easier in 2 week increments. Stick with it and you will be rewarded.

Good luck!

I did find my dd got an upset tummy after me having a Chinese, but she was quite young at the time, & I never had that problem again, when she was older.

Regarding expressing, there is no way I could have been bothered to do it every day. You know you have to wash & sterilise every part of that bloomin pump?! Having a new baby is tiring enough without this faff!

Absolutely agree with the poster above who mentioned Lansinoh - fantastic stuff!

Best luck with it all OP! I realise I was lucky in bf being very straight forward for me, but I do think you can worry too much about it in advance! Just take each day as it comes, but don't assume you'll have problems!

Just to give you another experience - I expressed from as soon as my milk came in and we still do this for DD (12w) as her dream feed. I also did it for my DTs until we dropped that feed, at around 5-6 months.

I express in the morning after I've fed her and this goes straight into a bottle. I usually get around 4oz. I express again in the evening just before I go to bed and this goes to top up the bottle with any extra going in the freezer for when she will need a bigger bottle.

I used the milk collection cups in early weeks when I was leaking lots & had oversupply. After it settled down I switched to Lansinoh pads.

The advantage of starting early with expressing IME is that it gives DH a job to go order the pump, assemble it, get to grips with all the nozzles etc. We don't sterilise them BTW they all go in dishwasher on hot wash.

Wow thanks for all the advice and experiences ladies. Really helps! Luckily my two best friends who have recently had babies both got on fine with breast feeding once they got past the first couple of weeks so I get to hear all the positives from them! They also tell me that the two health visitors round here are excellent and helping with the latch and helped them both no end which is reassuring. I just seem to read post after post of traumatic breast feeding issues and really hope that doesn't happen to me. X

Don't forget that people only tend to post on these forums when they're having problems, not to say everything's great, so it's easy to get a skewed view of how things are!

I agree with petite that people tend to ask questions on here due to problems.

In fairness, I found breastfeeding relatively easy at the beginning and that was with tongue tie (corrected at day 5) and mastitis. Obviously a little painful because of those things but i enjoyed it and it came natural to me. I know a few people who were like me too, just found it all ok.

All you can do is be prepared for tiredness (from having a newborn, not breastfeeding) having a huge appetite () and lots of visitors!!

Only thing to add is that if expressing the night feed doesn't work try feeding lying down. It can take a bit of getting used to for you and your baby but can be a godsend if you are really tired or ill.

I found that even though I never gave DD3 a bottle, it wasn't a problem when the chips were down. Well, we tried once when I took her sister out to a birthday party and left DD3 with DH and a bottle of milk. DD3 just snuggled up to DH and waited until I came home .

When DD3 was 6m 3w I had pancreatitis and I couldn't feed DD3 due to the pain (I had a skinful of morphine and everything else under the sun and it still hurt WAY worse than having a baby) she was EBF due to health probs so was feeding a lot and I just couldn't feed her so a nurse raided the Paeds. A&E for a bottle of formula. She took it no problems and that was with DH feeding her while I howled on the trolley! Just goes to show they aren't silly are babies.

Second all the suggestions for Kellymom.com - fab website with lots of research and evidence based information - not a website filled with 'In my day we fed every 4 hours for 10m' or 'What you should do is XX'

I have to disagree with GodisaDj on the expressed milk and bottle issue. You will come across time and time again here, babies who started to refuse a bottle from 10-12 weeks. These are EBF babies who were introduced to a bottle early on. This is common enough to be in Dr Jack Newmans article on what to feed the baby when mum is working outside of home.

Mine first took at bottle at about 4 weeks, 2-3 times a week. It took me a lot of effort to express the milk (which I am rubbish at), and the most I could get to is a bottle every few days. I was determined to do it because I was going back to work at 7mo. All was going well until 4 months, when DD became aware of things around her, including the fact she was offered a bottle at night. She started screaming, waving her arms violently in an attempt to thrash the bottle away. I persisted with another month of this violence and screaming, until at 5mo I decided it's enough for both of us.

Looking back, I wasted all that effort on expressing, something I don't enjoy, and all for nothing.

DH did the bath and bed duty, and he loves it. He also loves the baby bjorn and taking DD out for walks. There are many ways a dad can bond with a baby, without being the mum and feed the baby. In fact I found the bed duty immensely useful for going out once DD is well established on solids. She now has a feed when we get home from nursery, before bath. She's not fed to sleep, and I can leave home once I've fed her at around 5:30. I'll need to get home to change before going out anyway! It also means DD has always been able settle with a daddy cuddle.

Oh the cheek of DD actually took a bottle when she went to nursery. But she was holding the bottle herself, self feeding. And she drinks pre-made formula which I never gave her when she was younger. By the way, she also doesn't tolerate spoon feeding, insists on feeding herself solids too. It's just her character to prefer to be in control.

From what you have said TerrorNova your DD took to the bottle during an emergency situation, which is great and thank god she did too.

I only gave my story because we had to get DD to take milk because of my operation and we'd got it sussed and then stopped (something which the OP might have considered doing if she hadn't read my post).

My DD was taking a cup of milk after about 5 days (this wasn't instant) and she would take a spoon of milk after about 7 days of trying. Both of these options were our fall back but obviously taking a bottle would have been far easier for her and DP (I was thinking worse case scenario that I wouldn't be out within a day and might have to stop over night). Bear in mind, when she refused the bottle she was only 8 or 9 weeks old.

The link you have given states:

If the baby is at least 6 months of age when you start back at outside work, the baby quite simply does not need to take a bottle. If he is even 3 or 4 months, he does not need to take a bottle. He can be fed liquids or solids off a spoon and by 6 months of age he can be taking enough so that he will not be hungry during the day.

To me, this basically means if mother wants to get so much as a couple of hours off when baby is 3 months to 6 months old, someone would need to feed with a spoon or cup. It's just not realistic to me when persevering with a bottle and trying different types/teats did eventually work for us. My DP never forced the bottle on her (I'm very much a natural parent) but just offered a bottle before breast and I tended to 'disappear' whilst he was doing this. She eventually took it.

I attend a BF cafe on a regular basis and I have many friends whose babies won't take a bottle and would also cry for milk if their mum wasn't around. Your DD3 sounds very content with daddy waiting for her milk but my experience so far, is that not all babies are like that.

GodisaDj, the point of my post is that we did all the right thing, but DD turned into a bottle refuser. She took to it no problem at 4 weeks. But taking a bottle early is no guarantee they will continue to do so. She refused all bottles between 4 and 7 months. And will scream blue murder if we even attempt to approach her with a bottle. We have lots of bottles and teats at our house - avent, tt, breastflow and NUK.

What did turn it around in the end is when she can feed herself.

Fair enough terranova. I see your point clearer now. An unfortunate situation which I have not heard of before. Definitely good for op to know about