In desperate need of help with BF, colic and reflux (long post, sorry)

[DozyNosy]

DD 2 weeks and has gone from 6lb10 to 7lb6 so putting on weight well. She is EBF on demand. I'm convinced I'm doing something wrong despite her putting on weight. I feel dreadful that I don't know what else to help her. In the midst of a 5 hour screamfest, I put her down for 10 minutes while I went and stood in the garden and cried. I love BFing I don't want to have to give it up if I can't do the right thing (what ever that may be)

I think she has colic or trapped wind, certainly all the colic symptoms for hours each night. The crying is not always constant it can stop for a minute or two and then start up again for some time. She writhes around, arching her back bring her knees up going red in the face. No potion being held being put down nothing helps. She looks to be in so much pain.

She has also being sick a lot, not just posit, but not projectile. It looks like a lot in volume up to 4 times a day. The HV saw it and said she might have a lose stomach valve causing reflux. The HV, MW and baby clinic have all said that it's all fine as long as she puts on weight. She is definitely filling her nappy plenty too so something must be staying down. However her poo is liquid like curry sauce, the MW said that this is normal but should look like scrambled eggs soon (I'm not sure when soon is supposed to be). When is it classed as diarrhoea if bf babies are supposed to have wet poo anyway?

But I have seen lots of mums saying that they feed for 40 minutes every 4 hours. Ali feeds for roughly 15 minutes every 3 hours with a good latch. If she feeds for longer then it results in a cycle of epic sicks, demanding more food only to throw up again and very cross baby for up to 5 hours. But I still worry that she is not getting enough or not getting to the hind milk even though she does flutter feed.

We are trying a combination of:

Burping - Can result in nothing at all, or an epic sick which can really upset her.

Infacol - She has been on it for nearly a week, seems to help her burp, she cold not burp at all now her burps rival DP's. The colicey type episodes have gone from 5 hours to about 2 or 3. Can it get rid of them all together eventually or does it just ease it? We have not tried Colif because I'm reluctant to express. As far as I know she is to young for Gripe Water plus there seems to be a national shortage at the moment.

Sitting her up after a feed - Some times this helps some times not. I depends on her mood, some times she wants to stay cuddled up.

Changing the angle of feeding position from horizontal - I still do it tummy to tummy but have her head higher than rest of her body. I tried it at about a 45 degree angle but this had no effect. Iv'e also tried it with her vertical and her legs between mine, this helps everything go and stay down but it's more difficult to get a latch.

A dummy - (flame away, but I'm desperate) Yes I know it's really bad if you are BFing, but she is still giving feeding cues and latching on fine. I had them (I got them free) as a last resort and held off giving them for as long as I could. I only use them if she gets in to a real state after feeding and wants to suckle not feed. If she fed for longer she would just be sick. I've never been pro dummies or con. And when I saw her take it, it did break me a little until I saw the relief on her face. Also she doesn't have it for long, as soon as shes asleep she lets it drop out and doesn't fuss for it.

I wonder if she is just a quick feeder and can only manage a little and often rather than big feeds spaced far apart. Is this OK? Am I going wrong some how? What else can I do to help her?

I have spoken to my HV about this but she seemed more concerned about PND. I don't think I have PND, I'm more concerned for my DD than me. Sorry for going on (thank you if you'v managed to read all that), I hope that all makes sense I'm very tiered and feeling quite lost.

This will be a bit random and jumpy as I'm tired and trying to get to all your questions!

If baby is in pain then reflux should be treated regardless of weight gain (no adult would stand for having heartburn all the time but the GP wouldn't prescribe any antacids because they are maintaining their weight!!). I'm not saying your DD has reflux for sure (I haven't seen her so couldn't possibly comment ) but if the HV has described her as such....

Reflux-y babies love being upright (as you have discovered) so holding baby upright in a sling, in your arms or in a bouncy chair post feed can help minimise vomiting as can careful handling (no jigging about or playing horsey on your knee for the time being!). Raising the head of her cot (books or similar under the top end legs) and not changing her nappy straight after a feed (if you can help it) can also minimise her vomiting.

Some reflux-y type babies like dummies as the suckling action is soothing (as is bfing plus BM acts as an antacid and soothes the throat) so giving one isn't a bad thing as long as you aren't using it to extend the gaps between feeds or instead of a feed. Giving one when she has finished bfing but seems agitated can help soothe her.

Curry sauce nappies are fine up until they start solids (I have no idea what scrambled egg poo is tbh!). It's diarrhea if it is watery (so looks like their ordinary poo but with water stirred through) and is profuse/explosive/ultra-frequent but that is very rare in ebf babies.

A 2w old should be feeding around 8-12 times a day (or more if they ask for it!) so I have no idea where all these 40mins every 4 hours people are - are they bfing or ffing? If bfing how long before they stopped (and is it members of an 'older' generation telling you this)? It would be very unlikely for a 2w to manage to go 4 hours with out food/drink and tbh mine didn't go 4 hours between bf until well over 1y and that was WITH solids too. Babies tummies are small and need frequent refilling - especially if they have reflux.

How many wet nappies a day is your DD doing? You would be looking at 6 heavy disposable nappies or 8 wet cloth nappies and at least 2 £2 coin sized poos (soft/liquidy and yellow/yellowy green or even green).

It sounds like you are doing really well even though things are tough at the moment. Congratulations on your new daughter

A little and often sounds just right for a breastfed baby, and the wet nappies are perfectly natural, mine is 4 months old and still pooes mustard colour wet poo.

Why should you be flamed for giving a dummy? Lots of babies enjoy the comfort of a dummy, I was weary of introducing it too early and missed the boat, now she spots it out in disgust

It sounds to me like your baby is doing fine, you do sound very stressed and anxious so please try to take care of yourself too.

Hormonally we're a bit shaken after birth, I was very sad and panicky and constantly crying for the first 6 weeks after both my children. But don't hesitate to talk to your GP or health visitor if you feel really really low, that's what they're there for. Mumsnet is a brilliant place for support and advice but nothing beats deal life help.

Becoming a mum is a massive life change, it takes time both for you to come to terms with it and of course for your baby to get used to life in the cold world outside your belly! I really think that in a few weeks you'll both be much more relaxed and happy. xx

DS had reflux. We suspected by 8 weeks, but the doctor fobbed us off. By 4 months his weight gain had slowed, the vomiting was much worse, and he was an angry, upset baby.

We saw the doc again (a different one this time), who said simply "try gaviscon, if it's not reflux, it won't help".

We tried, it worked, he was like a new baby! Happy, and gaining weight again.

I now wish we'd insisted at 8 weeks. He was in pain for so long .

He did feed every 2 hours in the end. And continued for a while (when he could, I went back to work at 5 months, he wouldn't take a bottle. But that's another story).

Insist on trying gaviscon.

I was (am) BFing, so we mixed it with milk/water and gave it on a spoon after most feeds.

He's 10 months now and has mostly grown out of it. We still give him gaviscon if he appears to be suffering.

I do wonder how much of his grumpy temperament is a result of leaving him untreated for so long hoping it's not just genetic!

You are me 10 months ago- look at my post history in here and in sleep!
Firstly I promise 1, you're doing nothing wrong, some babies are programmed this way!! 2, it will & does get better, 3, do not compare yourself or your beautiful baby to other babies who are quiet and sleep
Ok burping/ colic- my hv showed me a way to rock ds forwards and backwards (sat up) or in figure of 8 both which were better than other styles for us
When narky also lying them on back and bending knees to chest
Ask hv for baby massage class as that helped a bit too
Get checked properly: silent reflux is awful but can be prescribed gavisgon on first instance
Bf is often better for collicy babies as they take in less air but if you wanted a small break perhaps try expressing a little, feed your baby, go to bed, let dp do next feed then you feed again, that should get you about 4 hrs which defo helps
Get out! I walked miles with a sad baby but he was much calmer being pushed out than sitting in, fresh air good for you (& as a nice side effect I am smaller than I used to be because of all the walking )

Baby swings are good- I didn't discover them till much later but helped
Prop up crib at one end and try some white noise music
Water sometimes helps calm some babies (tho not mine till he was about 9wks)
Infacol etc did nothing for us but worth a go
Hth xx

Re colief, you don't have to express. I ebf my daughter and when using colief would just put a couple of drops of it on my nipple during a feed. Saves all the faffing about expressing and it still seemed to work effectively.

Since my last post things have improved; big sicks have reduced to 2 or 3 a day and Colic episodes have gone from 5 hours to 2. I think it must be down to persevering with the various things I have been trying and trying some things you suggested. I thought I'd wait till my MW has been to give you an update.

I don't think my anxiety has been helped at all by contradictory advice from books and HCP about all aspects of BFing. Also MIL and GMIL are very anti BF and force feed me bull shit keep telling me how BFing never works as babies need more than just breast milk and other such anti BF classics. I think MIL is bitter because she didn't manage to BF successfully, but shhh I didn't just tell you that. When I next see her I'm sure she would love to hear how successful it can be even if it is hard work, I will definitely not gloat nope not one bit.

I've finally been signed off by my MW as I'm all healed now. Ali was signed off last week but I asked to have her weighed because of all the sick but she is still gaining well. She has gone from 6lb10 at birth (2nd Feb) to 7lb6 on Thursday to 7lb8 today! Woo Hoo nearly a whole lb since birth! So that's why she's been clinging to my boobs like a little limpet. The MW said not to worry about the sick, if it was a lose stomach valve it would be lots of sick after every feed. She said that it was more likely to be a combination of fast letdown and her being a bit of a guts and getting excess milk after some feeds. She said that if it continues more than a couple of times a day then to record each time and then go to the doctors. She also watched me feed with our new position and said that I was a natural . Still got a colicy baby though but guess there's not much I can do about that aside from colic drops and comforting her as much as possible when it strikes.

TruthSweet I'll continue to keep an eye on the sick if there's no improvement then I'll ask for Gaviscon at her 6 week check. Like you said no adult would stand having heart burn all the time. Despite her weight gain and even if she is not sick she often looks to be in pain after feeds :-(.
I've been keeping her upright even more, and put books at the head end of her Moses basket, this worked a treat and she has not been sick in there since. I'm also waiting a before changing her nappy after a feed and this helps too. I'm only giving her dummy after a feed and burping if she seems to be in pain. What did you mean by "bfing plus BM"?
They are always curry sauce type poos, not as you have described diarrhea. However she does poo lots, she gets through 6 to 8 disposables a day almost always with plenty of poo covering roughly the area of a £5 note, they are usually quite noisy poos too.

It was actually the HV and other MN threads that said about 40 minute feeds but maybe that's if they do both boobs. DD's have been a little longer than normal today but I think she having a growth spurt, it's roughly 20 mins every 2 hours. Little and often seems to be working well and I'm getting used to the sleep deprivation now and taking naps when I can.

metalelephant I will talk to my Dr if I feel very down but like all mum's I worry about my DD and whether I'm doing a good job, which I guess I am at the moment. I think your right about the hormones they don't help and neither does sleep deprivation. For some reason I got it in to my head that dummies were looked upon in the same way as Fruit shoots ang Greg's sausage rolls.

UnderwaterBasketWeaving It's good to know that Gaviscon really does work and also that I don't have to express then bottle feed to give it.

sleepdodger It's reassuring to know I'm not alone. I tried putting her in her chair next to the washing machine and I think the gentle rocking and noise really helped. She went from being in a proper grump to sleeping blissfully in minutes.

Vakant I'll try Colief if the Colic persists much longer.

Thank you everyone for your reassurance. I guess that I need to keep resurging myself that I am doing a good job and that if she is sick it doesn't mean I'm doing a bad job. She has just had her 7:30 feed and gone straight to sleep she must have forgotten that this is usually the start of her witching hours. She has only missed a couple of Colicy evenings before and boy does she make up for it after midnight, so fingers crossed please for tonight.

Thanks again everyone.

Just read that back and I missed the [ridiculously neurotic mum emoticon]

Sorry attack of the killer acronyms! I'll run this through the twaddle translator

as is bfing plus BM acts as an antacid and soothes the throat = Breastfeeding is soothing in the same way as a dummy is soothing plus breastmilk (the substance) is an antacid so when it gets swallowed during a breastfeed it helps to soothe the sore throat/oesophagus as it goes down, it isn't as rough to throw up either.

Hope that was a little clearer

You are doing a good job, actually you are doing a FANTASTIC job, be proud of yourself (and ask your DM/MIL how the heck humans got to the point of being able to invent formula if not for breastmilk being there in the first place??)

Well done you your mil et al may have helpful opinions but only you have the instinct for your child, cliche but true x

I'm no expert but is there any chance you might have over supply? My DC sounded alot like yours at the same age and that turned out to be the issue.