Help me make this feeding decision please

[stressedofnorthlondon]

About whether to introduce an evening bottle of formula.

I'll start by saying that I don't expect it to make DS sleep through the night, or really sleep any better at all!

DS2 is 4 months old and has been ebf since birth. He's doing really well, fab weight gain. He's doing the usual four month wake-every-hour thing at the moment, and we still can't get him to sleep in the bedroom till at least 10pm, sometimes much later. He was really sucky in the evenings, but now not so much. He clearly just doesn't like going to bed!

We have a two year old too so have our hands full in the evening getting him to bed (he's going through a funny phase at the moment, I;m sure due to his brothers arrival). I have a very hands on and supportive DH who puts DS1 to bed.

Then there's me. I've recently started on AD's, and am waiting for further assessment and hopefully input from the MH team as I've been feeling low, anxious, tearful etc, all the signs of PND. It's not really bad, in that it could be a lot worse, and I;m certainly not at a crisis point. But I'm definitely far from 100%. I have lots of days when I feel absolutely fine, but then a few where I really don't.

So, introducing the bottle; With DS1, he was supplemented from birth with EBM (and a little bit of formula before we were d/c from hospital) as he was jaundiced, didn't feed well etc. BF was v hard at first and I had to have days when it was too painful to feed so I'd express and DH would feed him all day. Once his feeding improved he continued to have an ebm bottle at bed time, and a little more on the rare occasions he was babysat till he was 6mo. Once he got to 6months, I replaced any bottles (so bedtime, babysitting) with formula, but carried on feeding till he self weaned at 19mo.

I intended to express for a bedtime bottle with DS2 also, but have been putting it off. I half heartedly got my manual pump out last week and got 40ml in 20 mins. My electric pump is in the streriliser but I just don't have the motivation to use it! I don't think I've got the time or the energy to express enough for a bottle every evening, then extra for when I eventually have a night out.

I have a night out at the end of march that I really really want to go to (it's a very special occasion) and cannot take DS with me so I need an alternative way to feed him by then. DH is really keen for me to either express or let him have a bottle or formula as he thinks this will help him settle in the evening (as I said, I', not convinced). But he also thinks I need to the opportunity to have some time out too which this would give me.

When he was first born I was determined that he wouldn't have any formula till he was 6mo. I don't think formula is bad at all, it was just a personal goal I set myself. But I didn't account for how tired I'd be, or that I'd start to feel down.

I'm worried also that it'll affect my supply but will it at this quite late stage?

Arrggh, why can't I just do it, one bottle isn't going to make any difference, is it?

Help!

agree with midge,
you're mental wellbeing is the most important.
That's why you need to find out whether or not e-breastfeeding is affecting you negatively?

Erm, by that rationale I'm also an expert nameis, and I'm aware I am most certainly not. Also, 4 hours at four months? There's a lot of babies out there who would beg to differ on that. Particularly if those four hours are over the evening.

Stressed - introducing a bottle of formula a day is presumably likely to affect your supply a little - in that your body won't know to make that feed. But if you intend to give the bottle of formula indefinitely, your question is presumably whether it would affect your supply by reducing your ability to give other feeds, and I think the general consensus here is you should be ok.

If you don't want to add a bottle of formula, go with your gut instinct and don't. But if you want to, do. If you want to go to exercise classes, etc and be able to leave bedtime to DH, if you feel it will help you breastfeed longer overall, it may be worth considering. Virgin gut is one of the weakest researched benefits of breastfeeding AFAIK and one bottle a day is unlikely to 'ruin' him. I guess you just need to go with a slow flow teat and watch out for any signs of bottle preference- you wouldn't want the number of formula feeds to creep up and up if you want to self wean. Also, don't let other people, no matter how well meaning, give you solutions for your problems that may not be your solution - try to think about what would make you feel better.

Ps. re supply:

My first started having an early evening FF once a day at 7 weeks. My supply adapted to the new demands so yes it did reduce but only to fit what was needed.

My 2nd, for reasons I won't go into, had a mix of FF and BF from the start. That was definitely more damaging to my supply.

My 3rd started having 1 FF a day at 6m. There has been no discernible impact on supply at all and I can easily BF instead of FF if need be.

Incidentally my first went from screaming all evening to being a happy contented baby with that one FF. Sometimes it does make a difference. I suspect my supply was low at that time of day because I was run down and tired by then.

Not an expert - just sharing my experience.

troll hunting is against the rules

If you want to take 4 hours out while excl. breastfeeding, I think you should be able to, by giving one big feed before you leave, and being ready to give another when you get back.
In the mean time, baby could have water, to sooth them, but so they don't get full. Coming home with very full breasts and needing to feed, but not being able to becaus eyour baby has had a big bottle of formula isn't good.

I completely agree with formula feeding when it prevents the mother from suffering, even mentally.
Like I said, you just need to figure out if adding formula will help you.

Mixed feeding worked really well for me for exactly the reasons suggested by other posters - for that one feed a day, you are not in charge and the pressure is off - whether you go out, have a bath or are slumped in front of the telly. I found ebf completely overwhelming but put myself under enormous pressure like you. At about 2 weeks, I started expressing after the morning feed for the evening bottle, then replaced that bottle with formula at about 4 months. I would recommend it to anyone and the fact that I knew I wasn't absolutely essential every evening just took the pressure off enough to regain my sanity and meant that each of my children continued to get mainly breastmilk until they were over a year - I definitely wouldn't have managed that had I not handed over a feed a day to my husband. I know it wouldn't suit everyone but it sounds like you need to take the pressure off!

keepmum, that's a 1977 study taken from a document produced by a private company which sells lactation consultant training. Drawing this conclusion from it:
"That basically means that the immune benefits are compromised"
is really irresponsible. You have no idea whether that conclusion is accurate or not and nor can the OP. It's scaremongering and it's not helpful.

Hi Stressednorthlondon. Well done for BF this long despite the challenges and feeling under par. You have really done the best by your baby.

You set yourself a goal of 6 months, it would be nice to reach that but do balance it out against the other things going on with the family and with your own heath and wellbeing. Is one bottle going to make much difference? To your supply? You know the answer you mix fed before. If baby slept through the night one night this week would it damage your supply? Nah. To your baby? Formula is not poison! In a matter of weeks you will be weaning I expect also baby will be drinking bathwater at bathtime if anything like mine - oh dear the gut flora! A nice big BF after will sort that out thankfully. What I'm trying to say is you know the answer you will be happy with and you don't need all this input some of it ridiculously imbalanced imo and insensitive to your request and what you have outlined about your health right now.

Keepmum - I didn't say it was clear cut. I said virgin gut was one of the weakest researched areas, which I stand by. The evidence about changes in gut flora is one thing, but there is limited information on how that affects babies, and even the research seems to suggest only a small number of vulnerable babies would have an effect (though granted you can't be sure in advance who is vulnerable).

nameis - I don't think there's any 'ought' when it comes to the pattern of breastfed babies. No way could either of mine have gone four hours.

You sound as if you absolutely have thought of all the pros and cons here and lots of mums do a bit of both just as lots of mums only breast feed and lots of mums only formula feed for whatever reasons they have.

You must do what you and your husband feel is right for your family. As has already been said, it is alright to change your plan/mind parenting asn't an exact science!

If you are interested I did a bit of both after 14 weeks with my first - I had little milk and to be honest was shattered and managed to continue breast feeding until 8 months even though i starated back at work at 6 months. So I found a bit of both very helpful. I actually think she got a better feed once I started to drop a BF, I seemed to have more milk, or maybe I was more relaxed!!

Did breast feeding longer with son and it ended up he was a nightmare to get onto a bottle it was a total panic before I went back to work at 6 months but we did lots of trying out teats and we got to a cup thingie in the end and all was well!!!

Good Luck with your decision and I am sure the decision you make will be the right one for you and your family. xx

Thanks ladies. That 1977 (so yes vvvvvvv old) study made me feel a little as DS1 had formula in the first four days so his gut was ruined from the off, according to that!

Janie you make a good point about them not taking to the bottle. I remember a friend not being able to get her DS to take anything other than the boob for a long long time. I think I need more than a week to get DS2 used to an alternative.

And yes he may be able to go for 4 hours with no feed, but it's not going to be very relaxing for me if there's a chance he gets hungry before that and I have to rush back.

I still haven't fully decided what is right for me, but you've all made me think a bit more about what is really going to suit me, DS and DH.

Well some believe that the gut can be repaired with exclusive breastfeeding so I wouldn't worry about that stressed.

The replies on this thread shows that people have so many different ways of doing things. Only you know your situation and how you are really feeling in yourself.

less of the vvvvvv old thank you - I was born around then

Hope she doesn't mind me doing this, but here's tiktok's opinion on virgin gut

SPB - I still think the same :)

stressed - too many views here....you have to make up your own mind and I am sure you will. Have only really skimmed, and maybe someone has said this, but if you leave a gap of several hours between feeds (during which your baby has ebm or formula) you will be uncomfortable unless you express.
Just so you know :)

Stealth I'm older than that

I am all for EBF, but this thread is a little unpleasant, especially as the OP has mentioned she has PND.

OP, only you can decide whether you want to give formula. It's something I personally don't want to do, although I've no real reason except not giving formula companies my money now that DD is over 6 months and also on solids. I do understand that 'trapped' feeling though. It's obviously much easier for me now, but before DD was on solids I did find I could get quite a good break if DH looked after her and if I was out he could keep her distracted for a bit if she got hungry. (she was a bottle refuser for a while)

I hope you can find a solution that suits you.