Is there any hope

[pigletmania]

I have written a couple of times, my ds is 2 weeks old and started to bf, than the MW was concerned with dehydration and jaundice, he had to be topped up with EBM/formula, threatened with admittence to hospital if I did not comply, so felt i had to. He was admitted to hospital and put under lights (jaundice) and paed said that i had to top up with bottle and no cup feed as he could inhale the milk and choke. Ds has gotten so used to the bottle that he does not want the breast. i give him my breast he does a few sucks and falls asleep on it but will happily take the bottle. i express most of his feeds which keeps my supply going, is there any hope in him taking to the breast again or is that it? . If necessary i will express as long as possible, my SIL expressed for 9 months, i just want him to get my bm.

sorry for worrying but i guess at least he is getting my bm

piglet, yes, there is hope.....it's good your ds is happy to snuggle up to the breast. Keep up those opportunities - keep him next to you and your breasts as much of every day and night as you can, try co-bathing (this often works great), and remember that many women do go back to full bf even after this sort of dodgy start.

FWIW, I think you had a rotten start. You were topping up on midwife/paed advice, with a bottle, from day 2 - no suggestion that they thought hand expressing of colostrum was a possibility :( Sometimes, babies do need early formula supplementing, and of course baby piglet may have been one of these rare babies, and he ended up back in hospital anyway, so he may have been poorly and needed that intervention.

But with your high level of motivation, and your continued expressing, I'd be very optimistic you will do it :) You do need to express a lot - at least 8 x in 24 hours.

Thanks Tiktok thanks so much was hoping that you would come on with some great advice. . I do express 5 times a day with about 4/5 floz each bottle which is good. Is there anything that will help increase supply, someone suggested Guiness . I will keep trying

piglet - nothing stimulates supply more than removal of milk....NOTHING :)

You can drink Guinness if you want, you can run three times round the garden singing 'Humpty Dumpty', you can cross your eyes and your fingers and your toes when on the pump.....all of these are likely to have no effect unless you count 'placebo'. But if you are only expressing 5 times a day, you risk not sustaining a good milk supply....sorry, but that's the way the body works. If your ds was managing a couple of good 'direct' feeds as well, it might be ok, but you describe a baby who does no more than a few sucks :(

The 20-25 fl oz you get at the moment will dwindle - at present you are at the early bf stage, where the body tends to over-produce, so it seems a good amount. But it will not increase and in time it will decrease. I should avoid sounding too dogmatic about this as someone may well post that they never expressed more often than this and all was well for months and months...but that is a rare experience.

It is a huge pain to express all the time - which is why not many women sustain it. Even the 5 x you are doing is a huge pain.

If you are looking to make more milk, then you have to express more. You could try hand expressing - some women get to be brilliant at this, and it's less hassle than the pump. 5 mins hand expressing on each breast when you have the knack is often v. productive, and all you need is a clean bowl and something to decant it into.

Have you tried co-bathing?

Piglet - you are me! My dd had to be topped up from day 1 due to jaundice and lack of interest in bf. She did the same as you little one and just fell asleep, if I could get her latched at all which was basically once a week!!

I expressed 8 times a day and was advised never to go more than 5 or six hours between pumps (and only go this long once a day so got one longer stretch of sleep once dd started sleeping a bit longer at night).

I thought many times that bf would never happen and even had bf counsellors tell me they thought she's never bf because the bottle is easier but the wonderful wonderful midwives at the brilliant feeding clinic at the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford gave me faith and lots of useful advice. Their advice conflicted with others' advice in some respects but I trusted them and figured that even if they were only right 80% of the time, it gave me one consistent source of support rather than struggling to reconcile many and varied sources.

To cut a long story (not very!) short, i got my dd latched on for the first time when she was 4 weeks and two days old! She was still a very sleepy and inefficient feeder but with practice got much better! From about 8 weeks she has been bf really well!

I still offer her a top up from a bottle after bf-ing except at night when she has bm only (mostly for my own piece of mind that she's getting enough, but also because by the time she starred bf-ing relatively well, she was also sleeping through the night (lucky me!) and I preferred to continue offering top up than risk disrupting her sleep pattern). I also still express 2 or 3 times a day to be sure to keep my supply good and to have ebm to offer in a bottle. My dd is now 5 months old.

I hope my story helps!! Keep the faith if that's want you want to do. Babies can start bf-ing after days/weeks/months of bottle feeding. But it is hard work and if at any point you decide to move to ff, do not feel bad. Whatever you decide is the right decision for you.

Good luck!

Brilliant story, Wombat :)

Hi,
Sorry you have had a bad time :-(
I had to bottle feed my DD due to early rapid weight loss (bad midwife advice) and struggled to get her to latch on afterwards, I got some nipple shields and got her back feeding from me using these, I then started letting her feed from them but then slipping them off so she was feeding directly from me, it took a bit of perseverance but she did do it eventually and I ended up sucessfully breastfeeding her to 11 months which I am very proud of .
Nipple shields don't stimulate milk flow like actual breast feeding but nor does expressing and so I don't think you'd loose anything from trying it.
I stopped offering my DD a bottle but got her weighed very frequently just to keep an eye on her and she gained weight nicely.

Rose, that's a good idea...nipple shields are sometimes used as a sort of transition tool like this, and there are a few case histories in the literature though no actual research. It could be worth a try, piglet.

thanks very much ticktok no i havent tried cobathing mabey i should. result ds has been latcing on today and doing some sucking but have top up as i dont think he is feeding enough from me. thats fantastic wombat really reassuring that there is hope and things can change. trying to type whilst ds asleep on boob

Sounds good piglet! And thanks tiktok

If you ever feel in need of support piglet, feel free to come on here or pm me. I was so lucky to have lots of rl support and I'm not sure I'd have got through the ups and downs of those first couple of months without it.

Sorry for the typos in my earlier post - was bf-ing and slightly distracted!

piglet that all sounds good....you will prob need to top up for a time, but do try cobathing - honestly, I have seen great results, and you should build on these improvements. There are some nice clips on YouTube and elsewhere on the web showing it.

My daughter has a tongue tie which was snipped at 5 weeks, sadly I was not able to get her back to the breast. Same as your DS couple of sucks and then she will fall asleep. Unfortunately it seems feeding from the breast takes much more effort for the baby than the bottle. However I know of others than have sucessfully got their baby to return to the breast. A good BFing counciller should be able to help you with this.

If you want to continue with expressing have a look at:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1381484-Anyone-had-to-express-feed-how-long-were-you-able-to-continue-a-supply

Well done for persevering... Please remember that every day of your breastmilk counts, take it day by day and try to not worry about the future. I was ever so depressed when my dd wouldn't suck for long but it helped to celebrate the tiniest victories: a bit less drunk from the topup, a slightly longer nursing.

Fennel tea and fenugreek tablets I found helpful to build supply, but like tiktok said its all about removing the milk, through expressing and nursing.

Breast compressions really helped, sort I reminding my baby why she was meant to suck, giving her incentive by releasing more milk and at the same time further stimulating the breast.

Positioning was paramount, once she was properly aligned she was able to drink more in less time, the consultant encouraged me to bring her quite firmly to the breast once she had opened her mouth. Really close hug.

Get real life support, breastfeeding cafes can be great help. My baby was exclusively breastfed by around 6 weeks I think, and now actually refuses bottles!

Best of luck piglet

How are you piglet? I hope you and lo are doing well.