Help - 6Day old breast feeding but crying in pain after / during

[k4mi]

Hi,

After some help / guidance if anyone has experienced this. Our 6 day old has been breastfeeding since birth. She latches well although i have large nipples and have had concerns that possibly she is quite near the front but she seems to be getting the milk.

My milk did not come in properly until yesterday and so up until then she was getting Colostrum plus a couple of extra cup feeds given in hospital of formula (which went down fine).

Since yesterday in the afternoon she has reacted very differently post feed. She gets sleepy and is on the breast for 30-40 mins but as soon as we then move her/put her down she looks like she is in agony. Knees are up, face is bright red and screaming etc. This can go on and on and we have found no way of stopping it but she seems to get relief from pooping/farting, she doesn't tend to burp much (we have been told breastfed babies don't need to be burped?!). The only way to calm her is a little finger to suck on or the dummy. At first i thought her still hungry but she feeds for 30-50 mins every 2-3hrs and falls asleep on the breast or ejects me (i always offer again).

Her poos have been a mixture of yellow and green/brown yesterday and today. Is the green normal at this stage?

My partner is sensitive to dairy and we have wondered if this could be causing the problem or if it's something else like not getting hindmilk?

Who has told you bf babies don't need to be winded? Sounds like it could well be wind. What happens if you don't move her/put her down after she has finished feeding?

Hi K4mi - I'm a bf peer helper.
Because she has had formula, this could be the reason she seems to have a little tummy ache. Once your milk kicks in fully, and you stop the formula, I think she'll be fine.

It's completely normal to be feeding for long periods of time at the moment - she will be wanting to get your milk supply up so will be trying to feed as often as she can.
Go with the flow (see what I did there?) and just feed on demand.

Sometimes she'll want a lot and other times, she'll just want a quick snack of breast milk. Hopefully, over the next day or so, the breastmilk you're now producing, will help soften the poos and help ease her tummy. Breast milk is like a natural laxative and breast milk is all they need.

With regards to the poo, check out the leaflet from your midwife that shows you the different types of poo. Breast fed baby poo changes often but green poo can signify that she's having a lot of watery milk at the start of the feed. To combat this, make sure you let her feed for as long as wants on the same side; this ensures she receives the fattier milk at the end of a feed. If she is very sleepy, ask your midwife different techniques to wake her up a bit (taking off her clothes except nappy/changing nappy mid feed etc).

If you think she's sleepy too much of the time and doesn't seem to want to feed, either ask your MW or HV or GP for guidance.

Hi,

She stopped having formula the day before yesterday.

Yes could be do to the fattier milk at the end, but i have been feeding on the same side for quite long durations.

Also her bum is starting to look quite sore and red (the hole!)...again only been this way for the last two days.

Formula stays in the gut for a lot longer than breast milk. Then formula will still be effecting her tummy I should think and could also be making her bottom sore.

If you are eating things like grapes, try cutting them back for a little bit; yes fruit if good for you but in larger quantities, can produce quite acid poos in the baby; making the bottom sore.

If she cries when you put her down, but is calmed by suckling, then maybe she just still wants to suckle? Have you tried putting her back to the breast, or back on the other side?

I have never heard of fruit acid getting into breast milk loopydoo? That sounds very strange. Do you have a link to that? Unless a substance is getting into your bloodstream (like caffiene or alcohol) I'm not sure it gets into the milk.

Rita - there are lots of articles/websites explaining that certain fruits and veg, especially grpaes can cause an upset tummy in a breastfed baby.

Indeed, how do you suppose breastfed babies experience tastes of the foods the mother eats if their flavour doesn't get into breastmilk (which it does), ie, garlic?

I will look for a link that explains......

Grapes cause upset tummies in bf babies? I have never heard that before, would like to read more too please

My baby is one day older. She too goes nuts screaming if we put her down at the end of a feed. I don't think it's pain though, I think she just needs sometimes a burp and then to be held! We are holding her all the time at the moment and that is definitely helping her to be more content and bf is going more smoothly.
A dummy might not be your friend if you are trying to establish bf?

Not just grapes - if you eat large quantities of dried fruit (as mnay new mums do to ease constipation) and brocolli/cabbage etc (to greater excess than usual), it can cause an upset tummy.

So the answer is to moderate your intake of those types of foods....still looking for an article that is backed up by research.....

Congratulations on your little one .

Both of my children (ebf) needed winding after feeding. Also this is a lovely time to sit back, relax and feed, feed, feed to build up your milk supply, as formula will always adversely affect your supply.

On the debate re fruit acid, all foods will transfer into your milk not just those which transfer into the blood stream. My friend found cabbage gave her DS terrible tummy ache

Laying the newborns on their tummy across your lap and gently rubbing circles over their back, can really help ease a tummy ache.

I will find you an article but it was actually my midwife that originally told me about grapes. I had eaten half a bag to avoid constipation and she laughed hysterically and said that it was no wonder the baby had stomach ache.

rita everything you eat can be passed through the breast milk in differing quantities.

Has the poo been yellow and is now going green/brown or was it green/brown and is now yellow(er)?

If it is reverting back to mec. looking poo, give the MW a call as that might need looking at (just in a check up kind of way not in a rush to A&E kind of way!).

Not heard of grapes getting into BM (sounds painful!) or fruit acids but Garlic compounds do get into BM (and BF babies do tend to like garlicky milk) but that is different from acids in milk as that would infer you have managed to change the pH of your blood as milk is essentially a blood product!

If baby is fussing post-feed try swapping to the other side (or back to the first/second/third/... side) while you check for the usual culprits for crying (wet nappy/hot/cold/tired/etc).

How are the wet nappies btw?

*"It is possible that some types of food and drink that get into your milk may unsettle your baby's tummy. He may have colic symptoms, making him fussy and miserable. Every mum and baby is different, though, so there are no hard and fast rules about what to include or leave out of your meals.

If you think a particular food has affected your baby, you could try cutting it out for a few days to see if it makes a difference (CKS 2007). It's thought that vegetables such as cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli and onions, as well as cow's milk and chocolate can cause colic symptoms (Gerrard 1980, Lust et al 1996)."* (Babycentre)

Good info on food and BM here.

"It is possible that some types of food and drink that get into your milk may unsettle your baby's tummy. He may have colic symptoms, making him fussy and miserable. Every mum and baby is different, though, so there are no hard and fast rules about what to include or leave out of your meals.

If you think a particular food has affected your baby, you could try cutting it out for a few days to see if it makes a difference (CKS 2007). It's thought that vegetables such as cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli and onions, as well as cow's milk and chocolate can cause colic symptoms (Gerrard 1980, Lust et al 1996)." (Babycentre)*

sorry - bold didn't work

There is some interesting theories being developed at the moment re. food intolerances in BF infants being down to the mother having a leaky gut (i.e. a damaged gut) as you shouldn't have foreign proteins in your blood (garlic is a bit different as it is an anti-coagulant IIRC and some spices come through intact).

Breastmilk isn't built from the food you ate that day but your body's stores (which have come from food in the past obv!) but if you have a leaky gut then things that shouldn't be there (like Cow's Milk Protein) may slip through the gut wall and into the blood stream still intact.

In fact BM is both a blood product and just highly specialised sweat and you do get some extracts of spices/garlic come through in sweat (you can tell if you had a curry the night before in my experience!) but I have yet to smell fruit in the odour of another person, or myself.

k4mi - just a point of interest but why have you been feeding on one side for long stretches? Have you been told you have over supply?

Perhaps the midwives are wrong then. I'm not saying it's a fact that grapes affect the baby however, there are thousands of mothers and professionals alike who believe that eating certain foods does affect the breastfed baby.

Midwives are often wrong about breastfeeding unfortunately! There are a lot of old wives tales about.

I couldn't resist adding my penny's worth; my third son is six weeks old, exclusively breastfed, and definitely needs winding. We had an awful time with DS1 because I never winded him, as I too had been told it wasn't necessary if he was bf.

Most feeds are punctuated with periods of patting/rubbing his back, and juggling him around when he wriggles or seems uncomfortable and it usually elicits an enormous burp. very satisfying!

Yes, rita that's true and especially when it comes to breastfeeding however, me suggesting that the OP cut back on acid-type/cabbage type foods etc is not a medical piece of advice, it's just a helpful suggestion which is actually something that comes up quite regularly at the breaatfeeding support group at which I peer support.

For example- at last week's group, we had a first time mum with a 3 week old who had colic type symptoms; lifting knees a lot, trapped wind, gripy type cry etc.

I asked her whether she had been eating a lot of fruit/fibre etc, as she told me she was worried she might get constipated. She replied saying she had been eating loads of prunes/apricots and brocolli and cabbage in quite large quantities.

We explained that whilst it's great to eat fruit and veg and fibrous foods, in abnormal quantities in excess of a normal diet, it may be causing the wind/upset in the baby.

In our training, rather than use the term, you should etc, we were taught to say 'many mums find that....' and for this example, many mums do find that wind in a baby can be made worse by certain foods.