5mo waking at least every hour - need help!

[JacqueslePeacock]

That's it really. My DS started off a great sleeper, with just 2 night feeds (roughly 1am and 5am), but is now waking up at least every hour, sometimes every 30 minutes. This has been going on for nearly a month! DH and I sleep shifts with him, but we are both nearing absolute exhaustion.

We co-sleep and EBF. I have fallen into the path of least resistance, and feed him back to sleep each time he wakes (rod? back? ), but I don't think hunger is the cause of the waking. He only takes 2 or 3 proper feeds and goes back to sleep after just a couple of sucks the rest of the time. DH can get him to sleep by jiggling and patting, but it takes a bit longer.

Is there anything we can do? Yesterday I was hallucinating with tiredness (!) and don't feel I can go on much longer like this. It's starting to affect my relationship with DH too.

Welcome on board Bartiimaeus (maybe not a bus you want to be on though)!
Don't really feel I have much to offer other than my sympathy. So . I was wondering about looking into the no cry sleep thingy but the problem seems to be that, like all other "sleep solutions", it's not recommended until 6 months (I think that's the case anyway although I haven't actually read the whole thing, only snippets).
Can't find anything anywhere to help deal with an under 6 m o non sleeper. I keep reminding DS that it's not in his interest to kill his parents but I don't think he's listening.
Like your DS, Bartiimaeus, DS only sleeps 30 minute naps in the day but I've been told that's not unusual. Just unfortunate! No chance to catch up with sleep in the day.
I think with the pick up/put down thing, you're meant to pick up until they calm down again and once they've stopped crying (whinging is ok), you put them down again. Seems like tricksybaby may be able to advise. But again, I read it's for 6 mo and older. Not sure why the cut off though. Could I kid myself that I have a very mature 16 w o?
Jaqueslepeacock, how are you doing? How was work? I do hope things improve for all of you soon.

Argh awful night. A good first block of 4 hours (mainly whilst I was still awake and eating dinner ) then woke every 2 hours until 3am, then every 30 mins until 5am, then every hours until 7am

The No cry sleep solution has 2 sections. 1 section for "newborns" which is up to 4 months - no real solutions just ideas to try and help baby sleep at night, like calm, quiet room, make sure baby sleeps enough during the day, being calm an hour before bedtime, not too late a bedtime, distinguish between crying noises whilst asleep and crying noises whilst awake (react to the 2nd, not the 1st) etc.

Then the next section is 4 to 18 months. With some ideas specifically for older ones, like making them a book in which you tell the story of their bedtime with various photos (cleaning their teeth, reading a story, lullaby then sleep for the whole night in your bed, then morning see your parents type thing).

But again I think 4/5 months is pretty young to "train" a baby. Either they are good sleepers or they aren't. Unfortunately DS isn't.

One thing the No cry sleep solution said was that any nap shorter than an hour doesn"t count really, it's just a cat nap. Which made me get very stressed out about how little DS sleeps during the day.

My problem is I'm battling against a culture of CIO (i don't live in the UK) and that seems to be the solution suggested by everyone, even DH. So I feel very criticised that I can't get DS to sleep better, especially as I refuse to let him cry (winds me up so I can't believe it's a good solution - especially as DS is too young to manipulate us by crying. I believe that he cries therefore needs something, even if it's just a hug)

Another every-hour night for us too!
Oh dear, if half hour naps don't count then it's worse than I thought! I do think that's a pointless thing for a "solutions" book to say if it doesn't actually have any solutions. It just adds to the worry. TBH I'm not at all worried that DS doesn't get enough sleep- he's as happy as anything and really thriving even if it is only 30 minute naps. It's DP and myself I'm worried about!

Oh, I forgot...where are you based Bartiimaeus? Just being nosey!!! Are there lots of differences in child rearing attitudes there? That must be quite tough.

That said, in the UK, I think the general attitude still is CIO, although that's not the consensus on MN. I'm not entirely opposed to CIO either but do think 4 months is a bit young to try.

I'm in France. When I told the paed we were having trouble with sleeping her suggestions were: sling, pram, car and quiet room Only the sling works to get DS to sleep (he hates the car and only sleeps 10mins in the pram) and that takes ages.

For the naps there was a solution - wait outside baby's room 5-10 mins before his usual waking time. As soon as you hear stirrring, go in and get him back to sleep in your usual method (rocking, nursing, singing etc.). After a week he should be sleeping longer...

Not worked for us yet! DS seems to ping wide awake from his naps!

Thing is, I only started stressing about his naps once I read that 30mins is not enough and at his age he should be sleeping 4-6 hours per day . Before that I was happy that he'd slept at all, and he seems happy enough.

have you tried putting him in your room in a crib, but not actually co-sleeping? It sounds like he stirs (babies have cycles of light sleep and deep sleep which are different from adults supposedly), senses mum and milk are on tap and then wakes up properly. I did co-sleep ALOT, but there were occasions when the baby would get completely out of kilter waking up every hour, which was resolved immediately when he wasn't sleeping right next to me and had a chance to settle himself back. In those situations I put him/her into his cot after a feed and he/she tended to sleep much longer blocks. (Although still waking twice a night which I would think was reasonable, unless you were trying to build up a supply for a growth spurt. I wouldn't think a growth spurt would continue for weeks unless the baby had lost its ability to resettle itself) I know this sounds a bit Gina, but having fed twins, there is no way I would have woken at five months twice an hour all night. I just couldn't have continued to feed them on that basis, so they went back into their cots, and as a result they did learn to resettle and sleep and feed pretty well, if I may say it...For me co-sleeping and bfng whilst co-sleeping was a compromise, if the baby slept better for it, yes, but if the baby was more unsettled whilst co-sleeping, cot after bfd!
Also I would assume that he is building up a good supply of milk (at the 4-5 month mark when in the old days babies were thought to be ready for solids), which he now has due to all those night feeds, but has also learnt the habit of waking frequently. If he didn't take lots of sips, he would probably get the same amount of milk, from longer feeds twice a night. He could be getting ready for solids, and it might be that he DOES need extra feeds, and that when he goes onto solids this problem will resolve.
If you don't think it is hunger, you could try the resettling. It may also be that he is overtired, and no longer can tell what he wants and cries for that reason, if he is not getting enough sleep generally. I think it would be exhausting for a 5 month baby to be awake that often int he night as well as you...

Try sleeping with them on their tummies, lying on your chest. They may be going through a separation anxiety thing or just realising that you are not the same person as them.
Just for a couple of nights to see if they chill.

PS And I never did controlled crying....Never had to. I think it is terrible to hear stories of people who have to "break" their babies of very bad sleep patterns at 10 or 23 months, because they were so desperate.

BTW, we don't co-sleep. DS has his own crib on the other side of our room.

Hi Barti, you really do have my sympathy. Remember getting really down. (understatement)

could be a couple of things going on. is ds on a routine? he might not be getting enough during the day, he also might take less in the day as filling up at night.
do you think your milk might be low in the evenings. if your tired your milk can go down. aparently babies then feed in the early hours to stimulate milk supply.

feeding every 2 hours won't help the gas and reflux as it won't have time to digest before the next feed goes in (really sorry as i know theres nothing you can do about it) again i'd see what they suggest. As I said i upped the calories in the day by weaning so he wanted less at night then fixed the sleep with the pu/pd. get early weaning might not be what you want to do.

might be worth going to breast feeding support group or ringing national breast feeding line to check it out as if any of these are the issue it wont work.

Pick up put down,
www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/01/pupd-tbw.html
I had to completely black out ds room as he found it too distracting. literally no light. I just liked it as I couldn't leave him to cry it out or even controlled crying. don't agree with it but thats my personal preference and have no problem with people who choose it. just wasn't for me. If it sounds like it might be fore you recommend bying the book as goes into alot more detail and lists why it might not work and how to adapt as they get older. (after illness etc when they get used to seeing you in the night) good news is my ds still sleeps 7 til 7 and has a good lunchtime nap and hes now two and a half. I can just put him in his room and walk away. he'll do the rest. which is why i'm so pro it, hopefully might work for you too.

final thing, i had lots of HV telling me to let him cry it out and not feed him at night. I was sure he was hungry so ignored them. as soon as I weaned him his weight shot back to match his length centile so was hungry. follow your gut if he's taking full feeds he probably needs them. just need to figure out why so he doesn't.

Sorry gone on and really hope it gets better soon whatever you decide to do. 4.5 months of breastfeeding is a massive achievement.

P.S completely not my buisness but you say you don't express, has ds had a bottle? just thinking of your return to work. mine wouldn't take one and couldn't use most of the sippy cups as they required sucking which he wasn't used to. if this is the case try tommee tippee cup then beaker. www.tommeetippee.co.uk/product/tip_it_up_cup_6m__/
and then i fed him morning and evening. we spent ages trying to get him to take any bottle or beaker. hope this might save you the time and expense.

Thanks for your replies.

DS used to sleep in our room until a week ago. But we moved him because he was being woken up by DH who shifts and turns a lot in his sleep. I'd lie there awake anyway, hear DH toss and turn and then hear DS start to cry

I do try to get DS to feed as much as possible during the day. But sometimes he then spends all afternoon being sick so it doesn't always work. Will think about early weaning.

I also think my milk supply is suffering, probably from the tiredness but also the constant feeding. Might try and spread it out a bit but it's so hard when he's rooting and you can't give him what he wants!

Thanks for the tip about bottles tricksy. We're planning on starting them about a month before I go back to work, when my family are here so someone other than me can give them to him! I want to continue bf morning and evening.

Have I namechanged and started this thread

Had tge worst night ever last night ds has a cold and would not be put down honestly I could cry today.

Will cone back and read tge suggestions when my brain will take them in.

barti i remember my first being attached to me constantly and people saying he shouldn't feed that often, you know your baby i was only suggesting ideas, if you think he's hungry then feed him.

you say he's rooting all the time. both mine knaw hands, lick lips when they have wind as well as when hungry. first also rooted when tired as wanted to use it to put to sleep. you said your son only naps for 30 mins, could this be the case? Please ignore me if isn't I dont know your baby. really just trying to help always worry it can come a cross as telling people what to do. really only suggestions.

Really do think you would benifit from a breastfeeding group, talking to hv, etc about uping your milk supply if you think it's low. also if it is low he needs to feed often to stimulate it so spreading feeds out might not be the best idea. think you might need to discuss how you go about sorting the feeds out with a professional.

really hope it gets better soon. on a positive second ds is nothing like this. At one point during the pregnancy it hit me he could be the same (up until then kept thinking all babies are different) I cried soilidly. really do sypathise. Just know that it will get better and if you have another it might not be as bad.

lovesskinnyjeans big hug coming your way. I wish there was something I could do to help. hardest part of bf is it is all you.

Our 5mo was sleeping an hour at a time tops at night, but we have put the heating on for longer and that seems to be helping. We also dress her in an extra layer. I know overheating is a concern but if you haven't already tried it, it might help? Good luck, it's awful isn't it.

DS passes lots of wind at night which wakes him up too, it's so frustrating.

Breakthrough! Suddenly slept 10.30-2.00, 2.00-4.30, 5.00-7.00!
Haven't changed a thing. Only one night though so hope it lasts (more likely a fluke)!

Hi there guys I was in your situation a few weeks ago when DS was 15 weeks (now 21w). For ages he woke up every half an hour. I was dead on my feet. I can't imagine having done this for as long as you lot. I have a 3yo too so no chance for daytime sleep.

I did a bit of research and half our trouble was needing the dummy to go to sleep. A lot of places online said that when a baby wakes in the night, they need to be re-settled in the same way they fell asleep first time. So Everytime my DS woke up I was having to wrestle with him and hold his dummy in until he dropped off because he needed his dummy to go to sleep in the first place.

So I took away the dummy at night. Now He just wakes up once or twice and can now settle himself off. I made sure that he originally went to sleep without the dummy, laying in the dark in his cot with me doing pat and shush things. and then when he woke in the night he just seemed to be calmer and more able to settle off to sleep.

He doesn't feed in the night and is already on quite a few solids. I also made sure he had three proper naps during the day of at least an hour. We wake at 7 for breakfast and he has his first nap at 9.30. I just lay him down in his cot and he settles off - this took time and practice though, he used to need to be cuddled to sleep in the day - he usually wakes in plenty of time for his next feed. We then play for an hour or two and he has a yogurt as well, another nap about half 1 until half 2. Feed about 3, short nap sometime before 5 then bedtime routine starts at half 6 with a bath, some prridge and a bottle, cuddles then down to sleep by 7.45.

This has took many weeks of trying to get him to learn to self settle, other peoiple putting him down for a nap, no dummy, more food in the day, good winding techniques and better daytime sleep pattern.

It is by no means perfect but its very much manageable. i will link to the website i read.

baby sleep site

Thanks cocnuts, I'll have a look. How did you get DS to sleep well in the day? I think half our problem is that DS won't sleep very well in the day. He has four 30 minute naps and that seems to be the way he just IS. It'd be great if he could sleep a bit longer in the day but we've tried all kinds of things and it's a bit like flogging a dead horse! I'll have a look at the site now to see if there's anything we could try.

Hello again,
Re. the 30 minute naps, my ds went through a few weeks of doing this, and even now, most of his naps are 30 minutes, but he tends to do one around mid-day for around 2,5 hours EXCEPT, he might wake up and feed once or twice in that time and then fall asleep right away (i.e., as if it was in the middle of the night).

For the daytime naps, I suggest that everytime he wakes up after the nap, you do whatever you would do to make him fall asleep normally for 5 minutes. If after the 5 minutes he is showing no sign at all of being tired/sleepy then give up, buy you may be surprised that he falls asleep again. After 3 or four days of doing this you may notice slight signs when he wakes up that will tell you whether or not you can "extend" the nap. My DS looks wide awake (or crying for a feed) when he wakes up in the daytime, but still sometimes he does need more sleep and will go back to sleep quite easyly.

I'm not sure what i did really. i know his tired cues and instead of cuddling him shoving the dummy in i laid him in the cot and waited for him to sleep. sometimes he' cry and i just picked him up calmed him down and tried again so a bit of pick up put down. i also PUPD if he fails to settle himself at bedtime too.

i still let him nap on me in the day occasionally if i fancy cuddles and need to do anything

i FF though and ds runs to a 4 hour routine so it may be harder/different if u BF on demand.

and dont need to do anything.