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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Appalling advice at Children's Centre

25 replies

Mombojombo · 02/02/2012 11:42

Ive just very dramatically stormed out of a session on weaning peddled by my local PCT. Apart from being incredibly proscriptive about what we 'must' and 'must not' do, to the point of parading round with different pots of mush of the consistency we 'must not' offer until particular weeks/months old. When I asked about baby led weaning they said they could offer individual advice but couldn't teach to the group, then basically said we 'must not' offer finger food until 8 months... I'll prob post this in Weaning too, but the thing that disgusted me most:

One woman expressed concern about her BM supply dropping since introducing solids. Their response; "yes, that's what happens until it eventually dries up then you can stop"!! This line delivered as if everyone wants to stop ASAP after the introduction of solids.

Somehow talk came round to night feeds. Their take on this; "babies don't need milk at night. If you feed them at night you're encouraging bad habits" - I'm paraphrasing but they then went on to suggest we let the baby 'cry it out' if they look like they want feeding at night!

At this point I did a bit of a 'woah woah woah there' and asked if they were advocating not responding to our babies' physical and emotional needs, pointing out that feeding my baby back to sleep takes 5 mins but 'leaving him to settle' would result in a psychologically damaging hour of screaming until he makes himself sick, their response; "it won't be an hour every night"!!!

I said that feeding is about so much more than nutrition in what are still very tiny babies, and they trotted out an appalling analogy that "if your husband made you a meal in the middle of the night you'd eat it then expect it every night'... WTF???

What bothers me most is that I know enough to dismiss it as tosh, but there were women there clearly taking it as gospel. Should I complain officially do you think? They run this session every 2 weeks so lord knows how many women are feeling terrible about not following their ridiculous regime!

OP posts:
ChipsnCheese · 02/02/2012 11:52

utter crap!

Did the session have a name - was it a private company who does the rounds? I heard similar about some 'experts' going to someone's house, where they had got together a group of naive mums. Can't remember the name of the session but something clever and catchy. If so, google it and write sternly to the owners, and also report to your local pct or whoever recommended it.

And btw - The NHS Birth to 5 book (p43) says: "around 6 months babies can eat finger foods - this means food that is big enough to be held in their hand and stick out the top of their fist" it goes on to list all sorts of fruit, veg, breads, pasta, etc.

stuffthenonsense · 02/02/2012 11:57

Oh my that is terrible! I am not surprised you left. Yes, definately complain to the childrens centre and to the HV.

emsyj · 02/02/2012 12:00

Sorry but this is my experience generally of my local children's centre - the advice they give is just shit, plain and simple, I treat it as a social facility (or did when DD was small, I don't go there any more as DD is too old). To me, it's there to facilitate you meeting other mums and to give you somewhere to go when you're at home with a newborn and just need to get out of the 4 walls.

I went to the 'First Time Mums' group at my children's centre and was just agog at some of the 'safety' advice. They went through a quiz of 'appropriate ages for these activities' and one of them was 'lighting a match unsupervised'. When we went through our answers, everyone said the suitable age for a child lighting a match unsupervised was 'never' - to which the group leader/teacher said 'the answer is 7'. Shock Shock Shock I asked in what context it would be necessary and appropriate for a 7 year old to light a match unsupervised, because I couldn't think of one, and was told, 'it says it here, the answer is 7' Shock.

They also told me when DD was 6 months old that I shouldn't be feeding her at night. I smiled and nodded and ignored. At another children's centre where I did my ante natal classes, I went to a talk about breastfeeding and they gave out a piece of paper with photos of celebrities on and said we were to pick out which ones had breastfed. Then they gave us the FABULOUS news that in fact, ALL of the celebrities pictured had breastfed, so it is okay to do it Hmm and 'look, even Posh Spice did it'. They asked what we all thought and I said that I didn't see how it was relevant to me whether Posh Spice or anyone else breastfed their babies and that I did not generally base my life decisions on the opinions and actions of people that I don't know and who play no part in my life, cue all the other women in the group sniggering at me.

Gosh, what a rant. Sorry. But yes, complain away - just don't expect it to change!

tiktok · 02/02/2012 12:07

mombo, please, please, please complain.

This may be a bought-in course - there is one doing the rounds whose name I have forgotten which is designed to combat child obesity, and it is really bad on things like night feeding and babies' needs. It's conflating breastfeeding in response to need at night with continuing to give 200 ml formula bottles twice or thrice at night. It's all very un-nuanced, and whether it's this course or another one, in the hands of HVs (who can be really bad on weaning and bf - not all, but some) who can trot out the most appalling tosh, it creates anxiety and in the case of mothers who have a clue (like you) huge irritation.

Make a note of the points that bothered you, stay calm, don't let them think it's a clash of 'philosophies' or parenting styles ('cos it is not), and ask for a meeting with the HV manager.

tiktok · 02/02/2012 12:10

LOL at emsyj's examples of 'activities'.

It's hard to say why those (match quiz and celebs who have bf) are so wrong because where would you start????

Easier when they get something factual wrong!

Mombojombo · 02/02/2012 17:18

They were nursery nurses from the local PCT, it was an NHS/PCT thing just happened to be located at the children's centre. I have to say its a marked difference from the sure start session I go to regularly where they're huge advocates of BLW and BF, so I'm happy to report they're not all bad!

Will be complaining forthwith!

OP posts:
WoollyHead · 02/02/2012 19:55

You can read the official NHs viewpoint here and here

What you describe sounds totally out-of-sync with this. I'm glad to hear you're going to complain.

33goingon64 · 02/02/2012 20:07

I had something similar at my children's centre and felt similarly outraged. Also felt so angry that most women there weren't questioning it. We have never given our 11 mo puree, he had his first floret of broccoli aged 25 weeks and now eats the same food as us at every meal (sorry about smug blw rant but just demonstrating they are wrong wrong wrong!!!!)

eastmidlandsnightnanny · 03/02/2012 15:06

our local childrens centre did one when my 17mth old was younger which I attended same thing and got us mixing up food to the consistency we thought it should be (ours was the normal family support workers so not employed by PCT but by local council) so we could practice.

couple asked about baby led weaning and got told would speak to them individually.

I did a mixture of BLW and traditional and certainly offered finger foods when I started mush at 25wks old and still breast fed on demand until 8mths and would have done on demand longer had I not had to return to work at 9mths. Mine did sleep through from 15wks 8pm-7am but should he have been wanting feeds in night I agree would have fed and now on the very odd occasion he does wake a quick 5-10min suck gets him back down.

I moved onto chunky foods mushed up when he was ready not when they or the book said and even now he has a meal of chopped up dinner for lunch with a fork and spoon and then a teatime he has mashed up dinner with lots of chunks in it spoon fed as he eats alot more that way and I know he has had more dinner than the carpet did at lunchtime!!

emsyj · 03/02/2012 18:49

The thing is though, 33goingon64, if you question things it makes other people uncomfortable and the people leading the group get their heckles up and it's just awful - I know, because I've done it! And I don't seem to be able to stop myself... Blush

But I can understand why others don't. I've always been gobby forthright Grin.

Mombojombo · 03/02/2012 19:20

I'm definitely in the 'forthright' camp emsyj. I was certainly unpopular yesterday afternoon. Spoke to PALS today and got the name of the person I need to write to. Have written the letter but will sit on it for the weekend then edit out some of the ranty stuff they could dismiss as me being a lentil weaving baby wearing co-sleeping lactivist they don't need to take seriously!

OP posts:
zeeboo · 03/02/2012 19:39

I went to one of those. Total shite.

CazFev · 03/02/2012 23:55

Yes, complain officially as you need to try and protect the women taking this as gospel. How awful! It may have been a bought in course, but this is not something health visitors and the government would advocate, and they need to be aware of what crap is being spewed out by these so called professionals!

I am breast feeding and I always get people asking me, 'so when are you stopping' like everyone who does it is desperate to get the baby off the boob!

Mombojombo · 14/04/2012 17:40

UPDATE! UPDATE!
I did write an official complaint letter, which was investigated by Director of Nursing & Clinical Practice in my area. Some highlights of their response:

"I can assure you that in future weaning sessions only correct terminology and advice as outlined in DoH guidance will be used"

"As health professionals we advocate that there is no time limit for mothers to breastfeed and this includes night feeding"

(and my particular favourite bit)

"May I reassure you that the service follows the DoH strategy on increasing the number of mothers who breastfeed by providing the required support through our service delivery. This is our aim at all times. As a result of this occurrence both the professionals involved will be attending a UNICEF refresher breastfeeding course"

"Each of the CNNs involved will be supervised by a Health Visitor in the weaning sessions until they are retrained"

"In response to the issue of babies being left to cry alone at night, this is not advice that we should be offering, and I apologise that this happened. Once again this has been discussed with the CNNs involved and they are now clear on this issue."

--

However useful their retraining may (or may not) be, I do feel like my letter was read and digested and addressed. That's 2 ill-trained and opinionated CNNs sorted. ONWARDS!

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 14/04/2012 17:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

heliumballoon · 14/04/2012 17:50

Well done you!!

tiktok · 14/04/2012 17:57

mombo, brilliant :)

EauRouge · 14/04/2012 18:13

What a fantastic result :) Well done for complaining. This will make such a difference to other mums.

crikeybadger · 14/04/2012 20:58

Oh well done for taking the time to write - and so good that they seemed to have taken your concerns seriously. Good on you. Smile

DW123 · 14/04/2012 22:41

And well done for writing it in such a way it got the right response. Brilliant!

pigletmania · 15/04/2012 09:13

What a load of rubbish. Babies are different to adults your not comparing like to like. If a baby/child wants feeding you feed it. Stupid people

pigletmania · 15/04/2012 09:15

Fed dd now 5 through the night till 2 and she more o ess sleeps through. She has a bottle water by her bed which she ales hersef

organiccarrotcake · 15/04/2012 10:56

Bloody well done OP.

pigletmania · 15/04/2012 11:07

That's great op. even if you ff like I did, I still fed in the night if dd wanted it

highheelsandequations · 16/04/2012 21:08

Well done for complaining op, I am sick of being told my baby no longer 'needs' her milk in the night and should be left to cry it out, the hv has also implied I'm feeding too often in the day as well, I haven't told her we're doing BLW as I know she disapproves!!

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