Do you give your breastfed baby vitamin drops?

[haloflo]

Specifically vitamin D? My friend is a nutrition student and said that its recommended to give breastfed babies vitamin D drops. I asked the HV who said only sick or babies who don't eat well need them. Who is right? From googling it looks like the NHS line is to give them. If its so important then why has no one told me this until now then?!

DD is 10mo and a picture of health.

Glad you all seem to find me, the AAP and babies health such rip roaring fun to have a great old jolly laugh about it all.
Beveridge When I first moved here, I tried your NHS, as it seemed such an interesting concept, and found the way I was dealt with, the time I had to wait and the advice I received appalling, your private system here is far superior and I find it unbelievable that people even bother to debate that. Have you ever tried private, so you too can make an informed comparison?
Derby with regard to the world health organisation being the gold standard please read this: m.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jan/14/six-months-breastfeeding-babies-scientists?cat=lifeandstyle&type=article

BH I've tried both and prefer NHS. Have you read my post as to why? Would be interesting to see what you thought of it. Aside for the absurdity of given a baby a vaccine within the first hour of his life (without risk factors) may I just add that my son's temperature was 100.4 F or 38.0 C - which was the cut off point for admission - for an afternoon and that during the two days that i spent post partum on a chair at Seattle's Children's Hospital his bloods, urine (via catheter), spinal fluids were taken and tested for all possible diseases and he was given meds by IV for all possible diseases. Bit of an overreaction perhaps? Anything to do with my private health insurance maybe?

BH, look at the discussion in the BMJ about that article you link to - don't link to a newspaper report about it, as if the media reports of a paper are sufficient.

The way the media reported the article was very poor and inaccurate.

Please don't knock the NHS. For all its limitations, its maternity and paediatric care is world class.

vanilla I haven't read your post I'm brand new to this forum, but clearly you had a nightmare experience and I am so sorry about that.

tiktok your are attacking me from every which way and being most unfriendly to a newbie. My experience with the NHS was terrible, which I am free to recount, and I have heard stories about seriously ill people being left in corridors and postcode lotteries for life saving medication. If you think that's world class then your standards are much lower than mine. As for linking to the guardian, it's a reputable paper and was reporting the original BMJ article. You are making me feel most unwelcome.

BH my post is in this thread on Easter day. Would be interested to hear your point of view

tiktok was merely pointing out that it makes more sense to link to the actual article, you have repeatedly made out that we are misinformed and putting our babies health at risk by not giving iron supplements, when actually the advice from the WHO states that there is more problems with babies getting too much iron, i would much rather listen to the WHO when it comes to advice on supplements and bfeeding etc, rather than advice from a country whose health system is geared for profit making.

BH I have studied healthcare economics at Honours level so I am well informed about it's shortcomings from an academic point of view (since we're bandying qualifications about on this thread as if that makes a different to any factual information we are sharing).

My family has also utilised private health care on a number of occasions while on holiday in Spain through our travel insurance - yes, everyone was dazzled by the battery of tests and standard of facilities both medical and decorative (marble receptions anyone?) but you don't actually need a private room with a balcony to recover from heart failure or get effective pain relief for shingles (to give one example). Once home flown home by medical escort, my mum was admitted to the NHS cardiac ward, discharged from there a week later with a regime of meds and rehab, with follow ups at a cardiac clinic and strict instructions to call immediately for an ambulance if even the slightest symptoms recurred. She made a really good recovery.

Also had private treatment in Australia (unimpressed - on the one hand, I had a doctor dressing an injury which would have been a nurses job in the NHS, on the other, they were going to leave it 5 days(!) before they dressed it again! ). Friend who was a practise nurse in the UK went to New Zealand to work on the wards - had to put up with all sorts of catty remarks about 'your rubbish NHS' and yet saw (and fixed) shocking practises e.g. meds left lying about that should be locked away, showers not cleaned down between patients, healthcare staff that couldn't respond to a workload that changed throughout the shift. So a private healthcare system doesn't guarantee against poor practises. Plus you still have to pay an excess depending on your policy and in some cases like treatment for cancer, patients were being discharged from my friends ward with free chemo drugs but not painkillers because the painkillers are not classed as 'cancer treatment' by the insurance companies!!!

I found a lump in my breast last year and went to my NHS GP who reassured me that she thought it was unlikely to be anything sinister and referred me on a non-urgent basis to my local NHS hospital. Less than a fortnight from finding the lump I had been sent out an appointment, been seen, had ultrasound and needle aspiration and given the results the same day (galactosele ). I would have been seen a lot faster if it had been suspected to be malignant.

NHS Scotland is a different kettle of fish in some ways from the higher population centres of the South East of Scotland and of course now it is a devolved matter, the Scottish Exec has the power to safeguard it and make it more responsive to the health needs of the population. We now have free prescriptions across the board up here which is more than Bevan managed to acheive!

But in the UK we also have a more public minded approach to health care generally and that has positive knock on effects for all of us in our society. It's all well and good being able to access over-treatment if you can afford it, but what happens if you can't? www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7420744.stm
Yes, my family's healthcare is my own first priority but you never know what's around the corner. At least I know that whether I am the Head of MI5 or an unemployed cleaner my family and I have an entitlement to healthcare that is free at the point of need. I believe it stems from a quaint old thing called the hippocratic oath....

Just remembered - my mum also had her artery bypass done here 20 years ago by Princess Anne's surgeon. That's the thing about paying for private treatment up here, it's the same people treating you whether you pay extra for private treatment or not.

My Dad was once offered a private room (for a fee) in the NHS hospital he was admitted to for asthma related issues but he declined it, saying he would rather be in full view of the entire ward if he was going to keel over again as someone would notice straight away in a 12 bed ward!

BH, sorry I am not going to buy this 'you are horrid to a newbie' schtick. Your very first post on this thread managed to say the lack of info about iron was 'weird' in the UK, and that if we needed info we should ask an American paediatrician!

You've gone on to say none of us care much about the health of our babies, to make sweeping assertions about UK health visitors, to diss the NHS, as well as to remain dogged in the face of my repeated explanation that experts everywhere may differ in their interpretation of the evidence without one side having the monopoly on truth.

I am sure you are well able to take care of yourself in debate; to complain that I/we are not 'welcoming' enough to you, when you have made it crystal clear what your opinion is of people debating with you, is an astonishing cheek, IMO!

I'm in agreement with tiktok. The reason all of us are on here is because we care deeply about our children. I find what you say an insult. You are entitled to your opinion, no one disputes that, but to be so sanctimonious when we voice ours, again is insulting. With regards to our NHS - you can say what you like, it isn't perfect, no system is. God forbid you should ever have to dial 999, I don't wish that on anyone, but who do you think will turn up? The good old 'free' NHS. No papers will have to be signed, no refusal because you're not insured. You will be treated the same as anyone else. Which, btw, is how everyone is treated on here.
Rant over and I can now look upon my gorgeous, healthy, well loved 6.5 month DS and know I'm doing what I can for him as I have just bfed him to night nights.

Mich, agree with you, unsurprisingly :)

It's just bad manners to be rude to people and then plain odd to subsequently complain that you are not being helped to feel welcome!

It's that way in RL, and on talkboards, too :)

BH Newspapers are notorious for over-playing and taking medical journal articles out of proportion. The Guardian, however reputable, does it all the time with "superfood" articles all the time. The WHO is the gold standard -- mostly because it constantly is reviewing itself which is part of medicine. The WHO, with several leading hospitals world wide, is currently running studies into this issue (my son is part of it) due to concerns raised. You however, seem to refuse any new information and rather than discuss the new information, you're blasting the WHO.

This is how medical knowledge is generated. Previously, it was thought 'put more supplements in as soon as possible'. Now, through studies, it is known that iron particularly has dangers when supplemented. Even in poverty stricken countries there is concern about it as it is linked to increasing severity of certain diseases. The first document that I posted gives the current world standard for iron supplementation. It says not for under 4 months except in very few situations, and not under 3s at all unless it is an area where iron-rich food is not available. There are reasons for it, the giant mounds of medical information to back it up.

BH - that BMJ discussion article (not new research) was poorly reported but was flawed in itself (as you'll see if you look at the ^next* edition of the BMJ and the various WTF letters from the great and good...)

Derby "It says not for under 4 months" That's all I was saying! Supplement from 4 months. I only started supplementing from 4 months as there are loads of experts, not just the AAP, the scientists argueing with the WHO and my top UK paedatrician at the Portland that agree and stress it's really, hugely important. Most importantly as I mentioned I had a friend who didn't supplement from 4 months and is now very sorry she didn't. She thought her breastmilk provided everything and sadly she was proved wrong. She wishes now someone had told her otherwise. Of course don't give too much that's really dangerous. I had genuinely come from a good place and was trying to be that person stressing the importance. In the states most of my work was pro bono and I genuinely care about people especially babies. If I came on too strong I'm sorry. I didn't bring up the NHS or any other issues, but I did offer my opinion when others did, and went off topic. I focused on topic and still stress how important a small amount of iron zinc and vitamin D is important from 4 months. As soon as I mentioned the brand I was using you guys leapt on me, but will happily discuss buggy brands here??? This is health and much more important. I thought if someone on here was searching for advice I could be of some help since I have done so much research, have personal experience and perhaps someone could save the £300 per consultation my UK (not just US) paedatrician charges but still hear his advice. Anyway I only want to talk to open minded people. And my experience on mumsnet has only shown me how closed minded people can be here, sorry no one thought I was in the least bit helpful. So it's tootle pip from me, I won't be posting again as everyone seems to find me insulting.
BTW. I know you all care and will always do the best for your babies as you see fit, contrary to other posters comments about me I have never said you said you don't care about your babies, that would be ridiculous. So all the very best to you and your children :) Maybe someone later will look at this thread and realise how important iron is to babies, then I would have achieved something worthwhile.

It also said not to do it under 3 years at all unless iron rich foods is not available. You may want to actually read the documents.

I said I wasn't going to post again but Derby surely we must be in agreement that iron rich foods are obviously not available at 4 months :) That's all I'm saying after being persuaded by a UK specialist, surely someone must see my point. Certainly he is very well regarded (moms paying fortunes for a consultation with him) and he is not receiving any commissions from any vitamin co's....
The only other thing I'd like to say which, apologies, is actually off topic is vanilla I have now read your post and actually don't know what to say other than I feel for you and am completely and utterly disgusted at your treatment G-d bless you and your child. In fact I think you should be compensated although obviously that won't change the past but at least get you a little justice.

HV told me to give vits with both DCs while BFing. I bought them but only remembered to give a few times. DC1 is now 3, enormous, a picture of health. DC2 still a baby but also doing fine.

I think best practice is to give them, especially as there has been resurgence in cases of rickets in recent years. But unlikely your DC will come to harm if you do not. Especially if you are yourself teeing supplements which then effectively fortify your milk.

Thanks cheeseycharlie good to know this is best practice in the UK, FYI my friend thought her child was a picture of health until examined just before her
3rd birthday. Also FYI Kellymom "the supplements you take yourself don't fortify your milk" e.g: "Iron supplements taken by the mother will not increase iron levels in breastmilk, even if the mother is anemic"

I explained more than once what guidance was in the UK, BH - vit supps after 6 mths for all , no routine iron supplements.

This has been the case for many years.

The was for BH who talks as if this was news to her!

tiktok; cheesey mentioned nothing about 6 months, however another poster mentioned that she had been advised by a HV to wean at
4 months, which I think is ghastly as a 4 month old should NOT be put on solids. However, if that is what the HV is advising it must be standard practice if you agree with that suggestion I'm sad, if you disagree then are you admiting that UK health practices may be flawed and imperfect? Is it remotely possible that I, my paedatrician, his privately practicing colleagues (who advise the same) the AAP, the scientists argueing with the WHO (who
as a vast organisation would take years to change policy, even if contrary evidence was under their noses) and countless others may actually have a point? Or do you and the NHS have a monopoly on the right course of action? Also, if you can find me evidence that giving my 4 month old 2mg of iron a day could be bad I will listen, as I am open minded. The question is tiktok are you open minded? I don't think so.

My American paediatrician gave me the same advice as NHS

tiktok Funny my UK paedatrician doesn't go with NHS guidelines, but instead goes with what he (and his UK colleagues) think is best. I suppose the world can be divided into sheep and shepherds. Clearly the (UK and elsewhere) paedatricians are the shepherds. So I will be guided by them. G-d forbid your baby was sick (and I sincerely mean G-d forbid, as I wouldn't wish that on anyone) you would be guided by them too, and probably be surprised that they don't just go with the standard flow.

penguin so specifically what advice was that?

BeverleyHills - the NHS guidelines are that weaning should take place at 6 months. Also that mothers should ideally breastfeed exclusively for 6 months, and that vitamin drops (not iron) should be given if you are breastfeeding from 6m+