Breastfeeding and toddler/family life???

[coffeeaddict]

I am probably like most MN posters in that I want to do the best for my children. I have a 4 week old DC5 whom I am bfeeding pretty much exclusively. I have never had great supply and this time round am using Motilium, fenugreek, you name it. Even so, I am unable to express any extra (I have tried several pumps, for hours) and have resorted to the odd formula top-up in desperation.

What this means is, I am feeding constantly and can't spend time with my 20 month old. He is so active he needs someone supervising him with a free pair of hands. My DH has stepped in to help. I am prepared to put my life on hold for some time, but when I read the bfeeding threads here, I see that this situation can go on for months and months, with round-the-clock feeding through growth spurts etc. How do others balance the needs of the baby with a toddler?? It makes me so depressed. I had a hard pregnancy so ended up in bed some of the time and not spending time with DC4. I am a mother to both of them, not just DC5 - but it doesn't feel like it right now. :( Never mind my other, older children. I find myself wondering HOW overriding EBF should be, over the needs of them all.

Anyone been in the same boat?

coffeeaddict, it's always hard with a baby and a toddler :(

How would formula help?

I think the work involved with ff is often underestimated - formula has to be bought, bottles have to be cleaned, powder has to be mixed....and of course the baby still has to be fed :)

With bf you at least have a hand free and can cuddle, read a book, play with the toddler.

You need time and space for yourself, that's for sure - can you dh help in that way? Maybe by doing bath time?

Hope things get easier for you soon.

Formula does help with the relentless of feeding in those early days, though, let's face it. Someone else can help by giving feeds and though no one likes to say it, from what I can see with absolutely every baby I have had anything to do with it does seem to reduce the constancy of feeding at certain periods of the day.

I don't say this as a "ooh quick, whip out the formula now" thing, but because I think that pretending there is no time difference in the early days doesn't really help, as anyone with low supply or has to feed, say, two hourly who has peers with babies who are ff'd quickly see that actually, no, they don't spend as much time feeding. Even friends I had whose babies had reflux etc from formula STILL didn't spend as much time bfing as I did in those early days, though I won't say they were any less stressed or absorbed by feeding if they were having issues.

I loved breastfeeding, I did it until the eve of my son's second birthday, but the reality is that if you are looking at time inputted as a sole factor, when you bf you spend the first few months sitting under a baby a great degree of the time. You can do things to help, like sling the baby or work on one-handed feeding (I never found this easy personally as my baby would latch on and needed a lot of guidance) but you do have to accept that it is time-consuming. Later on, you almost gain this back because it is one less thing to get ready to get back and the baby's appetite (regardless of feeding method) is more stable etc, so bfing is far more convenient as at that stage the preparation for bottles is more of an issue timewise. Swings/roundabouts...

I think psychologically, you need to just drop the guilt rather than focus on the feeding method. A 20 month old is always going to be put out by the arrival of a new child, the new child is always going to take time away from them.. there is no way of changing this, whether you bf or ff.. the time you would gain from formula (which I know people will flame me for even suggesting is there to be gained) will not really change the fundamental facts of the shift in dynamic, and what you gain now, you lose later when arguably it can be more important (because the new baby is more interactive/mobile and requires more than feeding/patting/shushing/putting to bed in terms of time resources from you).

My grandmother bf'd 8 in a violent, abusive home where she would have had no help. By the time she had 5, the oldest was only just about to turn six. Despite having had just about the most catastrophic upbringing possible in many ways, they are all successful human beings with postgraduate education, decent jobs, long-term marriages (apart from the priest, I suppose!) and hey, they got through. You don't need to be in your 20 month old's face all the time, they won't break because you need to tend to your baby, they are learning valuable lessons about how the world doesn't revolve around them that toddlers the world over have had to learn. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Why it seems so attractive now is you just need a break. But I guess it's hard with five kids, it's only so possible for your dh to take over... are there other supports who could help out?

I agree that the time input for breastfeeding in the early weeks is often greater than for formula - and my post didn't suggest anything to the contrary!

I do point out that ff takes up time of its own, though.....time that is not always accounted for, in preparation and so on. Breastfeeding does give you the facility to multi-task a bit, though :)

I think psychologically, you need to just drop the guilt rather than focus on the feeding method. A 20 month old is always going to be put out by the arrival of a new child, the new child is always going to take time away from them..

Totally agree with this.

Also remember people come on here to moan and look for ideas/support so they can get through the day/night. They don't (often) come on to say it is all going well and they are so pleased to be bfing. So don't judge it by looking at this board.

If you can manage it feeding new baby in a sling so hands free. I never tried (only have 1DS) but hopefully with no2.

i feed my baby in a wrap sling or ergo and can play with my other daughter at the same time. we co-sleep also

older daughter self weaned at three on birth of sister (weirdly)

please remember that the mega long feeds don't last forever. mine now feeds in minutes. and that it's a blip in the childhood

My ds2 is four weeks and ebf, ds1 is 2.8 so I get where you are coming from. I was terrified of how I was going to cope but so far I have just about held it together. A sling is a godsend if you can feed in it. I have relaxed given up on house work. Whenever possible I get ds1 to help with nappy changes etc but then he's a little older. I spend a lot of time reading stories and watching cbeebies.

I do feel horrendously guilty at not spending as much time with ds1 as I used to or would like but it's not going to be this time consuming forever and ultimately toddler son has to learn to share mummy and possibly have a bit of patience . I'm not sure if i've been any help but I didn't want to read and run. Best of luck with it all and please try not to be too hard on yourself.

I have similar age gap as twistedwitch...

I've found it helps to go out to groupd etc, as DS tends to sleep in the pram and I can play with DD at the group, or if DS wakes up she has other people to entertain her. Similarly I haven't worked out feeding in a sling but it sends DS to sleep and I can play with DD while DS is in the sling.

When I get back DS generally needs feeding more but I let him cry for a minute or two while I sort out something for DD to do while I'm busy.

I try not to always see to one or the other first as I hope it gives DD the message that she has to wait sometimes. I also try not to exclude her while I'm feeding, so talk to her about what she's doing, or get her to sit next to me on the sofa and I can push around a car or walk a doll around with one hand.

It's hard sometimes, but try not to stress about it. It will get better.

tewihara, i find feeding easier in an ergo than a wrap (only use these as don't have pram) you can lower them onto the breast by loosening the straps and wedging a muslin undr the breast to get the right latch and when they're asleep you can hoik the baby back up and tighten the straps and the sleep hood means the head is supported when bending down to play with toddler.

wraps you have to change the position to much and retie and my baby would wake.

i must say i was dreading jealousy of my still-feeding three year old when her baby sister was born. but she self weaned and sits next to us reading when i feed and she loves watching, getting nappies and finds it all very sweet "oh, look, she's a sucklebunny!!!" and other comments. it did help that my husband (we both work part time and look after the children) stayed part time for 6 months on birth of second.

good luck, it doesn't have to be a nightmare

Thank you everyone! Unfortunately I have been told by a physio not to use a sling at the moment as I have quite bad diastasis recti (that's the result of 5 DC for you...) but the moral support is great.

I think when DC4 is just a bit older it will be fine. Funnily enough it's not so much the jealousy I worry about as he has displayed no signs. It's literally the fact that he's still a big, overgrown baby - and a particularly active one - so it's just not safe for me to have him and little DC5 together on my own. I can read him a story for about five minutes, then he's off, roaming. He'll swipe at DC5, run away, put himself in danger - and I'm stuck, powerless, bfeeding, unable to run after him. The age gap was bigger with my other DCs so I haven't had to deal with this. A 20 month old is quite a different prospect from an older toddler.

Anyway, I'm sure it will get better and the feeding will speed up. It is just freaking out to read threads from bfeeding mums months ahead from me who also have issues with milk supply, and the overriding message seems to be: you have to feed all day, all night; the only way to increase supply is feed; the only way to get through all the growth spurts is feed; this is basically your life from now on.... I think maybe I need to stop reading threads and scaring myself!!

coffee, you say, "He'll swipe at DC5, run away, put himself in danger - and I'm stuck, powerless, bfeeding, unable to run after him. "

How would formula feeding be easier for you in that situation???

You're right that things tend to get easier as time goes on - not only for the baby's situation, but also the toddler's. A 20 mth old becomes able to talk and understand more.

It is because I spend the whole time thinking 'Has she has had enough?' and feeding her again. Sometimes she seems contented after a feed. Maybe twice a day. Then I can put her down for a sleep and play with DC4. But a lot of the time she's still wailing after an hour, kneading my breast and desperately sucking. It's very hard to know if she is still hungry so I end up feeding her again and again and again - partly in a bid to boost my supply. I know that the more she feeds the more I will make - the trouble is I seem to be playing catch-up. Obviously formula feeding takes time but not as MUCH time. Also, someone else could do it, so my DH and I could swap roles and I could go to the park with DC4 or something, while he had the baby. At the moment I am quite OK with it as she is very little and I don't mind missing out on DC4 for a few weeks - it is the feeling that this state of affairs might last for months which freaks me out.

I think probably the issue is 'capacity' rather than 'supply' (having scanned kellymom for info in about 5 seconds!) Maybe I make enough milk but don't store massive amounts. I never leak, I never spurt, I have never been able to express more than a few drops. My boobs have not got very big - I am barely into a B cup, in fact I find it hard to buy feeding bras as they are all too big! I'm sure I can feed the baby, but it might be always at a constant 'little and often' rather than great big feeds with hours in between. Which is why I foresee months of near-constant feeding as her appetite increases. But perhaps I'm wrong?!

I think the trouble is that you have no idea how long this will last. If it is going to be months then in terms of family life in your position, I probably would consider switching to formula. But if it will only be 2 weeks, that's not so long to tough out.

It's a difficult decision!

Have you bf a lot before (sorry if I missed where you said) if so, how long did it take for your supply issues to settle? Maybe you could try and judge by that.

Storage capacity should not be an issue, only the very first part of a feed is milk which has accumulated, the rest will be made on demand. This is the same whether you have a cups or double J's!

You're kind of in the "boot camp " part right now where your supply is establishing, things should settle down in the next few weeks.

And in fact, once things get properly established at around 3 months, a lot of people find they don't accumulate/store milk up at all, it's all made directly and according to immediate demand, so in fact "storage" for milk isn't necessary at all :) milk transfer tends to become quicker too as they get older as they become more efficient at sucking.

I wonder if you are overthinking a bit? You say that you worry she might not have had enough, what is the worst thing that can happen if not? She will cry, and you can feed her again. And the other worry that this may go on for a while, well, how about continuing until such time as you would consider it a problem, if things improve you will be glad you carried on, and if they don't, at least she will have had those extra weeks of exclusive breastfeeding. It makes little sense now to switch or supplement in order to avoid a potential future issue, which may well sort itself out. :) good luck!

Thank you, again. Yes, I think over-thinking is definitely my issue. I am a great planner. The worry about her not having enough is, for example, me thinking 'Hurrah, she's fed, she'll sleep now, I'll take DC4 to the swings' and then she starts wailing and I have to dodge between trying to feed her with no sling and a toddler hurling himself off the slide. It is the fact you never know when you might have to put everything on hold to feed. But I guess I could just plonk DC4 back in the buggy. And try not to think ahead generally. Hard, when I spend my life planning and thinking ahead for the other children: it just comes automatically!

I read, chattered about what DD was playing or put the Tv on.
Sometimes she'd sit beside us and have a hug.
She'd steel Daddy atention if he was about.
She'd started Pre school so I could have a long morning feed in peace and one late evening after she was in bed.
DD1 is 37 months older than DD2 which helped because she knew babies needs were different to hers.
In retrospect she was unbelievably tolerant gives DD2 feed continuously and for a great many years

Yes. I watch other mums and toddlers who will sit nicely with envy :) I'm sure if DC4 was a different chap it would be different. His idea of 'playing' is to hurl things about, pull things off tables, investigate every drawer, run to the fire exit and try to open it... make a dash for freedom every time someone opens a door... At toddler groups he will try to grab cups of tea out of other parents' hands. This is why he needs a fully-functional adult 'on him' at all times. He is also very tall and can reach things other toddlers can't.

He has had a couple of accidents (one involving a cup of tea, thankfully didn't do any major damage :() which is why I am so vigilant. There is no WAY I can feed a baby and guard him safely at the same time, unless we're together in a padded cell. With other children in the house there is always the risk that one of them has left something around - even a biro - that he might grab and do damage to himself with.

I know he will calm down but I don't know when.

If I had been sensible I would have left a bigger gap between children! 37 months sounds a lot easier than 20 months!

NB if you're wondering, DH has got him at the moment which is why I can type this on the laptop while holding DC5!

Is there anything he likes playing with that might keep him in 1 place, eg one of those fisher price zebra bouncer thingies? At least then he would be in your eyeline while you're feeding, keep it as a 'special' toy for when you are at home feeding and he is in a playful mood?

I do empathise; it is a different prospect having a newborn and a massively active 20 month old, to having a newborn and a 30 month old (which is what I had). DS2 was massively active, and if I'd had another when he was 20 months, I'd have considered leaving home!

This may sound trite or simplistic, but what does he like doing that is still? Books, puzzles, plasticine? Can you teach yourself (and DC5!) to feed so you can be near him doing that? I realise it won't last long, but he'll be getting some mummy-input, so might minimise the disruption. Keep taking him to the swings; wear him out. Bf'ing in multiple positions will get easier; she won't need help with her positioning and attachment forever, she'll get stronger and more proficient (well, she's getting plenty of practise ;))

Good luck :)