sorry for posting in this thread but I am very worried about my dd's tooth decay.

[chocolateicecream]

I have just posted this thread in the health topic but I know that the topic breast and bottle feeding receives a lot of attention from pp, and I really could do with some support right now :(.

I have come back from taking my dd to a dentist appointment today and feel completely fed up.

My dd is 6 and has horrible teeth that are covered in black spots. She has already had to have one tooth removed because it was significantly decayed, resulting in several painful abscesses. Another two teeth are rotting and she currently has an abscess on the surrounding gum.

Every time we visit the dentist we are in and out in five minuets. The first thing that she said to me today was 'so how is the sugar going?'.
I quizzed her about the state of my dd's teeth. The dentist is convinced that her decay is down to too much sugar in her diet. She advised me that my dd should not go any less than three hours between eating (so how does this work in pre-schools and schools where children receive snacks and there are no opportunities for them to brush their teeth).

The dentist asked if my dd was bottle fed, assuming that this was a possible cause of her decay. I explained that she has never had a bottle, and has only ever drank from a proper cup. The dentist then told me that breast milk is very sugary and this may have been the problem (can't win here!). The dentist then said that from birth babies should not go less than three hours between feeds. I did dispute this and her comeback was that she herself had always done this and that her children's teeth have no decay. If she thinks that I am responsible for allowing my child's teeth to rot then why has she never made attempts to refer me to the dental hygienist? I asked her why my dd's teeth are so bad when I know other children with nice teeth who's parents were far less strict over their dental health. She just answered 'It's caused by diet and bacteria build up'.

I have always made a huge effort to care for my dd's teeth. She was not allowed sweets until quite recently and still does not eat that many. Her teeth are brushed three times a day and she has a healthy diet (I am aware that sugar is in so many things). I know other mums who have given their children sugary drinks, frequent sweet/snacks etc. and their teeth are fine.

What I want to know is why are my dd's teeth so susceptible to tooth decay? Yes I know that bacteria damages teeth, maybe my dd's teeth cope less with bacterial exposure? I did have hyperemisis through my whole pregnancy, I often wonder if this has had an impact on her teeth. I am so worried because some of her adult teeth have erupted and that there is risk of damage to these teeth :( .

Can anyone else relate to this, or shed any light on this one??

Many thanks

hi, dentist here. first of all please dont be upset. what your dentist had told you is actually true. it has been shown that repeated exposure to sugar increases the risk of decay which is why it is ideal to have 3 hour gaps between food. however i know this is ideal and not always possible with kids especially in early days of breastfeeding.

also hyperemesis wouldnt affect your dd's teeth only yours if very excessive.

basically decay is caused by poor diet ie lots of sugary snacks and bacteria. now it is true some people do seem to get decay quicker than others i have siblings with same diet one has lots of holes one none. we dont know why this is.

the most any parent can do is be vigilant about diet and sensible obviously the odd treat is fine. also regular brushing.

also breastmilk is very sugary and extensive decay can be a problem in extended breastfeeding.

is your dd due to have more teeth out at all? maybe under GA?

hope that has helped a bit!

A friend's DD has a problem with the enamel on her teeth, the effects were very similar to what you describe. She's very vigilant about teeth cleaning, no sweets, no snacks between meals etc but her DD's teeth still suffered.

Unfortunately, it took them moving to Switzerland to find a dentist who a) believed what she told him about tooth care regimes etc and b) could treat the problem - I think the girl had a bond of some sort put onto the tooth surface, this will wear out after around 10 years and need replacing,but does help the situation for now.

This website might be useful reading.

Please read this from La Leche.

"Presumably, prehistoric babies were breastfed, most likely all night long and possibly until they were toddlers or older. It seems improbable that human milk would cause decay-if it did, there would be decay evident in skulls older than 10,000 years."

It explains lots of reasons why breastmilk is different to other food and drink containing sugar.

x post...

In Scotland they are now painting fluride onto children's teeth as standard, see here for more info.

Bm isn't linked to dental decay, bf to term children are not over represented in children with decay. Look on Kellymom for references. Your dentist sounds awful, mine takes ages and we have no decay amoungst us. Can you change?

It has been suggested that there may be a link to weak tooth enamel as a result of hyperemesis but no conclusive studies.
My dd has weak tooth enamel and our dentist explained that it can be a result of very early exposure to high levels of antibiotics, dd was prem and in SCUBU. I also had hyperemesis, so possibly a double risk? :(

choc - I have a friend whose DD had tooth decay caused mainly by raisins - and missing brushing at night if she was too tired.
3 times a day seems excessive to me, is it possible you're brushing too much, this can brush away enamel? Do you check her teeth or allow her to do it entirely herself? Does she have a drink of milk after she's brushed her teeth at night? Have you tried using a pink tablet to see how effective her/your brushing is?
Thinking about BF and it's effects or not is very unhelpful. She's 6 now, so it's what is happening now that is important.

My ds was bf a long time (by western standards!) and he had weak enamelisation of his teeth, which the dentist said could have been linked to early use of antibiotics (he had them when a very small baby). No mention of bf.
I understand the evidence that bf needs limiting in time and frequency to prevent decay to be weak - is that not the case, yummy?

The anthropological evidence is not there - but of course pre-industrial age peoples did not/do not have the refined foods we have every day in the West.

Don't forget that it is not just suggary refined foods that cuase tooth decay. My friends little girl had a hole in her tooth and I remeber watching her feed her an orange instead of a biscet as a snak once.

Now I know biscets arent to good as they contain refined suggar and wheat but some fruit is highly acidic (like oranges) and full of suggar to and therefore aren't good snaks either. My dentist acutaly said that if you eat chesse after every meal (just needs to be a small bit) then it helps nutrlies the acid and reduce the amount of attace on the teeth. I guess the same idea as those chewing gums that you can get which are also supposed to do the same thing.

I don't agree that BF has anything to do with it.

Is it her milk teeth?

I don't have much more advice but just wanted to say that my teeth as child were awful due to having lots of antibiotics when I was small.

I had loads of holes, had to have one back tooth extracted because it was breaking away and all the enamel had worn off my bottom front teeth.

My adult teeth have been fine. 28 and no fillings yet!