6.5-month old feeding and sleep nightmare. Feeling so demoralised. Please help.

[featherblue]

I can't really believe I'm back here with so many problems yet again. Seems like at some point our life with our DD should be getting easier. :(

I'm not sure whether it's best to ask here or in sleep, but I thought I'd start here. DD is mixed fed. I've killed myself to get to this point still mix feeding. Had a ton of problems at the beginning, and despite doing everything I possibly could, I was not able to get back to EBFing. Earlier threads here and here.

Her sleep has been relatively good since about 11 weeks (usually 10:30pm-6:30am, couple of hour-long naps during the day), but in the last month it has gone haywire. She's refusing to go to sleep until midnight then waking again 3-hourly. Yesterday she woke for the day at 8am, took a 1-hr nap in the morning, a 2-hr nap in the afternoon, went to sleep from 9pm-10:30pm, then wouldn't go to sleep again until 1am. Woke at 3:45am, then again at 6:45am today, when we got up for the day. So about 9 hours total sleep in a 24-hr period. Surely that's not enough for a baby?

The reason I'm posting here is that I feel she's doing a bit of reverse cycling. I simply cannot get her to eat more during the day. I am constantly feeding/trying to feed her, so much so that I've barely started weaning as I can't fit it in. I keep track of feeding with an iphone app, so here's an example of what one day looked like, though everything changes every day:

5:30am - bf 11min
8:30am -bf 6min
9am-10am - bf 9min, 1.5oz formula (would not take any more and I'm very careful not to force it on her as I'm bottle-feeding on demand.)
12pm-1pm - bf 22min, 3oz ebm
1pm - bf 11min
4pm-5pm - bf 24min, 2.5oz formula
5:45pm - 2oz formula
7pm-7:45pm - bf 10min, 5oz formula
8:45pm - bf 6min
9:45- 10:30 - bf14min, 3.5oz formula
11pm-11:30pm - bf 5min, 3oz formula
1:45am - bf7min, 3oz formula
4:45am - bf 5 min
5:30am - 3oz formula

She breastfed a lot that day, but usually averages about 1.5hrs total bfing per day, much of it comfort feeding I assume. She usually takes around 20oz of formula per day, though it varies. Yesterday, for instance, she had only 6oz of formula total between 7am and 6:30pm, then had 20oz between 6:30pm and midnight. She then wouldn't go to sleep until 1am.

I just don't know what to do, and I don't want the answer to be to stop breastfeeding her because it has been so important to me to get this far, but I'm afraid it won't get better until I do. I worry she doesn't recognise her hunger because I 'force' her to breastfeed before she can have her bottle. Even with the small amounts she takes, she spreads it out over hours, ie one oz, stop and play, 2oz, gets angry, 2oz, etc etc, so I literally feel like I'm feeding her all day long.

We are half-heartedly doing BLW, when there's a moment to fit it in. She hasn't progressed that far, though has managed a little broccoli and has tried carrot, potato, toast, hummous. We try maybe every third day to give her something.

She has had two nasty colds in the past month that the sleep has gone haywire, and she is teething. She has reflux, but it has been much better lately and she's off all meds. She does not seem to be in pain when feeding anymore.

I know it's normal for babies to feed little and often, but she's almost 7 months old, and I have to have time to introduce solids. I think we would both really benefit from a schedule of some sort, but she will absolutely not eat or sleep unless she feels it's time, and she hasn't managed to put herself on anything approaching a schedule since the sleep went haywire.

I don't really even know what I'm asking. When she was sleeping ok, I felt like I could handle the hellish feeding, but the sleep now failing on top is just breaking me. Just really struggling, yet again. :(

Oh the weaning time is very very hard. All the new mums seem to just want to jump on the bandwagon as soon as they can. But in reality, babies don't reduce their milk intake at all for a while. Because they don't get food = satisfy hunger. I'm at 9mo now and honestly everything passes quickly and is a blur. But there was a time when I was doing nothing but feeding DD. She retains all her normal bf + doing 3 meals a day. I remember sitting in despair at home, thinking omg I'm cleaning this high chair again. It became really really hard to go out, because the day is like one feeding after another (sort of like back to the newborn period). But things improve very quickly around 7-8mo for us when DD started demanding less bf.

I was EBF and I'm fairly sure doing a feed every 3 hours or so. I wasn't using any rules like milk an hour before solids because honestly I'd never fit anything in. Especially if I need to get DD to nap. I just offer 3 meals when I eat, and continue to bf on demand.

Looking at your schedule I can see why you despair. You are feeding milk a lot! Is your DD demanding this much? Can you move to more a every 2-3 hour schedule? As some of your feeds are just 1 hour apart. I mean you still feed if baby demands, but it's strange she demands an hour after a feed, iyswim?

As for the sleeping, my DD deterioted badly at 6mo. She was a 10-6 baby from 2ish months, but since 6mo she never slept through a single night. A good night is woke up once. A bad night is every 2-3 hours. And sometimes, she just won't settle back in the cot, instead she wants to head butt me in the bed. (I started co-sleeping and also moved her cot back to our room. She was previously in her own nursery). There's a lot happening since 6mo though so I can't blame her for not sleeping well. She has got sick a few times, I went back to work, she's teething, she's crawling. I'm hoping she'll settle back to her old good sleeping self one day.

Thanks for replying. It's nice to know I'm not alone and that being able to EBF wouldn't necessarily have solved everything!

She does demand that often, I think because she won't take enough when she feeds. When she gets fussy, I offer bf, then bottle straight after (in order to attempt to consolidate the feed). She usually takes one ounce then wants a break for awhile, then fussy again, takes 2oz, etc etc. It's just constant. And I'm afraid to try to push her to wait until very hungry because I'm afraid that then she'll refuse to bf first. Also, if very hungry, she gets herself into a state and won't feed at all, just screams. God, I already feel like I'm giving her feeding issues for life.

Since she's eating so much at night, I'm also trying to offer as much as I can during the day. Maybe the answer is to stop caring, offer bf on demand and wait till she demands bottle and not worry that she pounds 20oz in 6hrs at night. Or drop the bfs at some day feeds to see if she takes more. I just feel like she's staying awake in the evening in order to make up for not eating enough in the day (I feel she gets very little from bfing).

We're also now cosleeping after her first wake up, which we really didn't want to do either. But she just puts her foot down and refuses to go back to sleep in the cot. Another thing I should probably go with the flow with.

You don't need to worry to much about food at this age they don't need to be on 3meals a day untill at lest 10months (If I remeber rightly, I'm going of the WHO recomendation hear).

You do seem to be doing a lot of feeding though. Have you considered droping some of the topup's? This maybe the way to go with weaning if you prefer to drop the topup's rather then the Bf's. It would be worth a chat with a BF couciler about this as they can help you form a plan.

As for the sleep. My expreance is baby's don't sleep, (I know some do) But honist most don't even at 5years old only about 50% of children sleep though everynight. I don't think it's anything your doing wrong and there isn't nessarcy a fix for it either. It's prefectly normal for them to still want milk or to go back to wanting milk during the night at this age. Your just best to go with it or you may just end up chasing your tail around trying to find a fix when there possibly issn't one.

All sorts of things cause more walking, sleep regesions, growth spurts, develpmental spurts, illness and teething. Honistly it sounds like your doing a great job.

Maybe not trying so hard to feed during the day is the answer? They do get to the point at 6mo that they don't wake up just for food. There is so much happening developmentally. And teething is a sleep killer. And you know you will have to try to find the time for solids. In the end you know her best, as we really can't see her. And you have done so amazingly well to have bf so far when she actually scream at the breast. Do you think talking the issues through with a bf counsellor or supporter would help? If you can get her even to feed only every 2-3 hours, it would be easier to move onto solids. And giving you a bit more of a break.

Silly question but are you sure her reflux is gone? I thought so with DS at that age but was wrong. The small frequent feeds might be an indicator. Also his reflux meant he had food intolerances too (dairy being one) which messed with his sleep so I had to reign back and introduce new foods every three days. Worth having s think.

Also can you have some feeds as bf and others as FF? So stop topping up as it's easier for you and your DD.

Thanks everyone,

MigGril I would love to drop the top-ups for solids when she's established. I worked with a lactation consultant/breastfeeding midwife when trying to get back to ebfing, so maybe she's the best person to discuss this with. I don't have much confidence in my HV, unfortunately. I just always worry she is getting very little at the breast. She was weighed once after feeding and had only taken in 2ml. This was, however, at 2 weeks old and right after her TT snip. I definitely think she gets more now. But since she's still taking at least 20oz of top-up/day, that is at least half of her needs.

Iggly I guess I'm not sure her reflux is gone. She does not seem to be in pain and very rarely throws up now. All I know is that she acts the same way whether on her medication (ranitidine and gaviscon) or not, so I have assumed she didn't need it anymore, if that makes sense?

OneLittleBabyGirl I think I will just try to relax about trying to get her to feed more during the day and less in the evening. Today, I've tried to go with the flow a bit more and it's been ok so far. She's basically just bf all day and had 2oz this morning and 2oz this afternoon. We actually even had time for her to try a little toast with mashed banana on top. I guess I'll see if we have a repeat of yesterday's hellish night trying to get her to sleep, but today has been a lot more positive.

Yes I know what you mean - I thought DS was ok but it reared again (probably due to solids though).

With the move to solids, you can use it as a chance to structure feeds and meals a bit with naps falling in between which will help. It did us - but at first it does feel like non stop feed/nap/solids!

Are you set in blw? Maybe you should start spooning her a bit of things you kn

Sorry! Bloody touch screens! Maybe start spooning some cereal after her breakfast feed will hel you make headway on the weaning? Whilst milk is still the main source I have heard that there's a " window" and it is recommended that they shoo us be on 3 meals a day by 8mo

Yes I agree with the last post, I think you should introduce some cereal or purée.I also think that you should just try feeding on demand but always offer the breast first. My DS is 7 months and on three meals now plus breast feeds. His sleeping is ok but we do co sleep and he does still feed in the night. This is much better however now I have started upping the solids. At about 5.5 months he started waking evert hour!! I know how you feel though! It's a killer trying to fit all these feeds into a day!!

My ds is same age. I gave up blw as his bf feeds became so frequent I couldn't keep up!! He also got very frustrated with food as he couldn't get it in fast enough, kept dropping it but really wanted it! So I changed to spoon feeding. It worked so much better for us!!! He also gets finger foods too, but usually after a spoonfeed, so he doesn't get as frustrated. Our day now goes like this:
7am- bf
9.30 - nap
10am- readybrek with ebm
10.30 -a little toast
12.00 nap for 1 hr
1 pm- bf/ ebm if I'm at work
3-4 - sleep
4.30/5 spoon feed ( dinner) finished with bf
7.30 bf and sleep for the night
11pm - bf- more like a dream feed but he demands it.
3 or 4 or 5 am- bf.

So he still does waken thru night for feed but nowhere near what he used to- he used to bf every 2 hrs without fail.
Granted- I've just returned to work full time, and very recently he has reverse cycled too, but it's not every night, and I think that when he's on 3 solid meals, that should improve further (hope!!).
Really hope u can get this sorted- I know what a killer it is to be stressing and feeding all the time, it might be worth considering spoon feeds??
Disclaimer: all timings are approximate, and no babies were harmed with my feeding experiments

Thanks so much everyone. I think spoon feeding is probably a good idea, at least for one meal. Breakfast would be good. Then at least I know I'm introducing something, and maybe it can eventually take the place of a top-up, since she never wants a big top-up after the first feed (if at all).

I had wanted to do BLW just to take the stress off of us, since feeding has been such a stressful experience so far. But it hasn't really taken the stress off, as I don't know where to fit it in! Will try her with some cereal tomorrow morning. I actually spoon fed her some carrot/potato puree the other day, and she really took to it. Or else she was just desperate to bite on the spoon. Couldn't really tell which!

Mampig I dream of your schedule. Maybe if I start offering the solids at the same time every day, she'll start to sort herself out? grasps at straws

Totally agree with sticking to a time of day, just be sure that it's a realistic time for u! Good luck- did she take the cereal this morning?

Oh- and the schedule fell into place itself after I introduced the spoonfeeds. I didn't implement it iyswim? 2 meals suits us for now, and it'll be a while before I introduce a lunch/ supper as he needs the milk. Haven't decided yet which I'll give- prob lunch as I'm back at work, then he can still get as much milk from me as possible x
It took about 3 weeks to get into our routine, and that was me being consistent about the order of feeding.

Mampig She did seem to like the cereal, so much so that I gave her sweet potato puree in the afternoon, that she seemed to love! Feeling very positive that at least I can have time to introduce solids now. I think I will try to spoon feed but give finger foods as well. And hope that her schedule falls into place a bit better. Thanks for your help! x

You poor lady xx This is a very hectic schedule! I would advise trying breakfast of some baby porridge around 630-7am. Then bf, bf as required after that until around 11-1130, then try offering some pureed or hand prepared finger foods such as fruit/veg, followed by bf on demand and formula in the afternoon in which she may take a full bottle. Offer tea at 4-5pm and then bf, then bf /formula for bed etc after. Formula for the late evening if needed. Once weaning is established offer water with meals and bf on demand otherwise. HTH

Oh and so that she doesn't become over tired I would also set a time for am/pm naps i.e. approx 830-930 am and 12-2pm usually works well. i.e. directly after solid feeds.

Thanks AnxiousElephant, we're usually not up so early, though I'm going to try to start getting us up at 7am and so moving her 'bedtime' earlier. She's not going to sleep until 11:30 lately, and we've been sleeping until 8am.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to just sort the morning a bit because she's been getting upset if I just try to bf then offer baby porridge, then nap. She simply wants her 2oz of bottle I guess!

So tomorrow I'm going to try:
7am - bf in bed
7:30 or 8 - offer bottle
Then nap, if she will, so I can express and shower
10- baby porridge

Just sorting the morning so she doesn't get upset and can expect things at certain times would be really good.

Will let you know how it goes!

Hi feather blue, I just wanted to say that it may not be a good idea to move the wake up by a whole hour straight away. I tried that with my DS ( although he was about 4.5 months at the time) and he had a total meltdown after he'd been up for half an hour. I read somewhere that it's better to move by 15 min intervals every couple of days instead. Particularly with introducing solids, there may be too much change for your DD all at once. Just a thought so feel free to ignore. Whatever you decide to do, good luck and sending positive vibes your way!!