WTF I don't think it's cluster feeding

[Iggly]

I'm sure there's a rational explanation but after endless nights of this I can't think straight.

DD is 5 weeks and has fussy evenings. I thought cluster feeding but she's screaming now and won't stop. I offer boob and she has a few sucks then pulled off and goes mad. Nothing calms her down more than a few minutes then she kicks off again. I can't take much more of it as haven't a clue what to do. I can't just park on the sofa and feed feed feed as she doesn't want to. It's just suck suck suck, scream, scream ad Infinitum.

Can anyone relate to this? She's screaming and I've had to put her down and walk away as I'm going mental.

Iggly, a TT can cause the same symptoms as oversupply (in the baby that is) - pulling off, clamping down, wind, fussing at the breast, pulling off just when let down hits, etc, etc as a TT baby doesn'thave the full range of movement that a non-TT baby has and often they aren't able to cope with having more than a small amount of milk in one go.

If you 'solve' the oversupply by block nursing, etc you may find you have decreased your supply too much. Nursing uphill (lying semi reclined with baby 'on top') can help reduce the force of the flow through gravity without decreasing the amount of milk.

There was another thread on oversupply very recently that turned out to be TT here.

A TT assessment might be worthwhile before trying to reduce supply just in case it is TT behind baby's issues not oversupply on your part. Your local maternity ward should have the no. for the TT clinic in your area or you could go through the original HCP who diagnosed the TT, or go private through an IBCLC who does TT divisions.

What ever it is I hope you find a solution soon.

Sorry Chocolatehelps - must refresh my pages more frequently! I wasn't having a dig at you I promise!

We found evenings with dd difficult for a while.( 12 years ago but I still remember ! ) It might have been colic as we tried "Infacol" (I think it was and it may have helped)
As she was our first I think she may have found our evening lifestyle a bit busy, with perhaps too much going on, loud music etc.
Could be that BFing was less satisfying for her in evening too, she could have been hungry possibly.
Anyway, it was just a stage of a week or two, and then she gradually settled down to be a more contented baby.
Good luck.
Hope you have more settled evenings really soon.

My son had colic (or unexplained batshit screaming when dry, not happy to breastfeed constantly as normal etc). It began at 6pm every night till 11pm; he arched off the breast but seemed no windier than anyone else at other times of day.

The only thing that worked apart from time was downloading an album of white noise from iTunes - hairdryer, washing machine and so on. I felt ridiculous but I was willing to try anything.

We had to turn it up really loud and his dad would walk up and down, he would calm down a lot and then either bf to sleep or on a rarer moment, drift off.

That got him through the tricky patch and really calmed him. Our neighbours must have wondered why we were running what sounded like a 24hr laundrette out of our house though...

i'm going with the cutting out dairy too. I'm allergic to dairy, and your little one sounds just like my mum describes me as being as a baby (total nightmare apparently ). It's really easy to solve, just cut out dairy products from your diet.

Give it 48 hours, if it is, you'll soon see an improvement.

Thanks all again. We both fell asleep with the white noise on

Truth I have a GP appointment on Friday so will ask for a referral to the TT clinic or ring the HV to do it as they have mentioned it (but said as the tie was minor I didn't need to do anything). I didn't know the symptoms were the same as for oversupply but my milk does go flying and the leaking was horrendous until I block fed when I had problems with DS, LLL suggested it.

So I'll check out the TT issue and get back on the no dairy wagon and report back. Thank you all again.

Oh boo wombat not you too!! A minor consolation is that we've done it before. I hate fobbing off DS too - poor thing is neglected a lot recently. I'll see you on the boards soon I'm sure

Aww iggly, it sounds like you're having exactly the same experiences as I did with dd2 (screamy evenings, tt, oversupply/letdown like a firehose, possible intolerances). It was rubbish, I really feel for you. The white noise def helped us as well (she was a summer baby and I remember still having the air con machine running into October!). Good luck, I hope you find out what the problem is soon.

Thanks lukewarm. it's easier knowing I'm not the only one who's been through it and also having DS to look at gives me some strength as he was a beastly (but I love every fibre of him) but now he's just wonderful.

Don't be too skeptical of cranial osteopaths, OP. You'll be amazed at how much a baby's poor little body goes through even with the most straightforward birth. When I was researching it for DS (albeit 4 years ago) I found a midwives forum where they were saying that all children should have one session as it can do absolutely no harm, but can do the world of good.

DS was like yours - it got to the point where DH and I just sat over Christmas sobbing as DS screamed and screamed and screamed. All our friends used to refer to him as our "cross child" and nobody (including us!!) wanted to be around him. He'd been delivered by ventouse and it turn out he a had recoil compression (where the plates bounce back too tight) and thus he was living with a permanent headache and was in constant pain

He had his first session of cranial osteopathy at 8 weeks, cried a little afterwards, went to sleep, and woke up the next day a COMPLETELY different child.

I don't know how I would've coped if we'd not helped him, and to this day I feel guilty about the amount of pain he must have been in and the fact we didn't help him sooner...

FWIW my DD had a TT diagnosed at birth. It was painful feeding her, she would get frustrated and tired, she clicked loudly when she fed, wanted to feed really often and she took in so much air that her poo foamed out of her bottom. The GP said she thought it was v minor TT because she could see my DD's tongue(!) and that it probably wasn't my DD that was causing the problem (the obv inference being it was me that was the cause ).

The HV told me not to tell the GP she had told me but to go to this breasteeding clinic as the woman that ran it could get quick appointments with a surgeon at the local hospital to have the TT snipped. We did and the surgeon said it was actually a really tight TT. The division took 3 seconds, there was the tiniest drop of blood and my DD was absolutely fine after a quick breastfeed. Feeding was much better afterwards and my DD was in a lot less discomfort. I confronted my GP and she admitted she had never had somone ask for a tongue tie division and didn't know anything about it.

Just wanted to tell you so you know you might have to be a bit pushy

Just to update (in case someone googles one day and this thread comes up!) I've got a referral for a TT clinic so let's see what happens. I've really noticed DD clicks when feeding and doesn't open wide. There's no pain though and big weight gain but I think that's because it's not hard to get milk out. She also feeds a lot in the day - rarely a 90 min gap!! Two hours if I'm out in the sling.

Sounds like TT is an issue, esp with the clicking. Given your first DC had a milk and soy allergy I would be absolutely rigorous about cutting these things out of your diet as there's a high probability that your baby has it too. No whey powder, caesin or milk protein - these are often hidden ingredients in stuff as you probably know!

Both of my DCs have been exactly as you describe and funnily enough DS (second baby- by far the worst) also had tongue tie to compound my oversupply issues, his milk allergy and severe reflux . It is sheer hell but when you've found the answers (which will hopefully be soon) life will become SOOOOOOOOO much easier.

PS I didn't have any pain feeding either, nor were there weight gain problems.

Iggly - sounds just like dd2. Was up on the 98th %, but only because the milk was basically getting hosed into her! I was concerned what the tt might have meant for bf when my supply calmed down ( by which time any separation would have meant a general anaesthetic rather than a bit of sugar water and a local). Also, I really couldn't see any downside to getting it snipped, it was such a quick procedure. Maybe 1 or 2 minutes. Obviously not pleasant to watch as a parent, but really not bad at all. She still totally refused to ever have a bottle or dummy though!

Good luck, hope they are helpful. Has cutting out the dairy again made any diffence to the screamy evenings?

I think the dairy has helped with the bum wind (was atrocious at first). Screaming evenings, I think, are partly overtiredness compounded by wind being swallowed from crying/trying to feed. So last night I wouldn't feed her within two hours of her last feed and she calmed down and was asleep by half 8 then took a feed (still swallowed air) However couldn't lay her down :( so three hours of upset which was an improvement and she didn't scream the entire time.

Narmada when did it get easier?