Would you introduce formula in this situation?

[Caz10]

Dd2 is 8 months, ebf. Started solids at just under 6mths, she loves it. Intended to do blw but she has clearly not read the book as well as dd1 did and likes to sit shouting until spoonfed at least the first part of her meal, but that is another thread! Main point is she is happily eating 3 varied and healthy meals and snacks every day.

Almost immediately after starting solids she started fighting me off when I tried to bf her in the day, I had about 2-3 stressful weeks when I tried every few hours, have tried before and after food, before and after naps, quiet rooms etc etc, she just wails and pushes off. Have now given up trying although can still occasionally feed her to sleep for a daytime nap, she falls asleep pretty quickly though and doesn't really get much milk.

She has a bath around 6:30pm and as soon as she is out starts crying for a feed, she'll then take 2 or 3 huge feeds before settling for a few hours, then normally feeds anywhere from once to what feels like a million times per night! Last feed around 5/6am then if not jumped on by dd1 will sleep till 8.

Sorry this is an essay! My thoughts are:
-surely no milk during the day is not ok? A bottle fed 8mth would be getting at least 2-3 bottles a day wouldn't they?

• Would trying say a mid morning and mid afternoon bottle help her need less at night?

Dd1 was still a big milk monster at this age so this is all new to me. I dont want a ff v bf debate, but I can't express and don't really mind formula now that she is having eg cows milk in her cereal.

Do you think a bottle is necessary/would help?!

TIA!

If she is eating plenty throughout the day then no I wouldn't give her formula

My friend had exactly the same issue - refusing breast milk in the day then feeding a lot at night.

She tried every cuo/bottle etc going and her baby wouldn't take anything. I think she finally had some success with just a tommee tippee freeflow cup and went cold turkey on the night feeds at around 10 months. Whereupon baby gave up breastfeeding altogether. Then she just used formula for the last two months.

Back to the question, would I introduce formula. Yeah, I, personally would but then I happilly mixed fed mine. Would go straight to cup though not bottle

Both of my children went off milk a lot as soon as they started solids. DD was on formula then, but DS was BF til he was 2. IME they are pretty good at regulating their own intake. Frequent night feeds are still very common at this age and for a lot longer with mine .The usual - is she still thriving? plenty of wet and dirty nappies?

BF well established now and there isn't anything she is doing that I can see would be improved by adding bottles TBH, unless you wanted to stop feeding altogether?

My only thought, maybe she is a bit thirsty - BF will sort thirst too, obviously, but you could try offering a bit of water at mealtimes if you don't already.

Sounds like you are doing a fab job and the nights are very hard work at the moment, it will pass

I have no major issue with the night feeds just now as not back at work for another couple of months, but it would be nice if there were maybe just 1 or 2 of them! I tried to night wean dd1 at 9mths when I went back, it was hellish, my periods came back, everyone cried a lot and I ended up cosleeping and night feeding on demand so everyone got more sleep! With dd2 she's been in with me from the start more or less, and unless I feel really unable to cope, don't plan to do any sort of "training"- too much hassle all round!

Ladyofnomanors can I ask why you say no? ( not disagreeing or anything, just curious!)

Re bottles v cups, I think I thought that maybe it would help eg dh if he was looking after her (I've not left her yet), a snuggly bottle feed seems closest to a bf, might help him soothe/comfort her if required?

Would she take a bottle though? Does she ever have them now? I'd just be surprised if an 8 month old would take one now, but of course it could happen.

I wasn't suggesting any kind of training, btw, just relaying an anecdote. The reason I said I'd introduce formula is because you seemed to be worried about her intake and, afaik babies should be breastfed or drinking 500mils of formula til 12 months and I would probably use it when she's not bf much. I'd probably just put it on her cereal/in cheese sauce etc though thinking about it.

I don't think she should need to be fed through the night and so I would stop doing that first and then hope she would feed in the day. If she won't I would give her formula in a cup during the day. I would suspect that she wants the comfort rather than milk at night. All three of mine have been ebf and seemed to be ready to wind down breastfeeding at about this age. We haven't needed bottles to comfort them , they have been quite happy with a cuddle and a sucky cup.
Your DD sounds a determined little soul!

She does seem very determined! Daytime bf has always seemed very business like for her, very fast and efficient unlike dd1 who snuggled for endless hours. I don't want to stop bf quite the opposite as fed dd1 till she was 3, although obviously by then it was just one bedtime feed. But I found it a very positive experience, great when she was ill etc, so 8mths seems very very young to me in terms of bf.
Yikes though hadn't actually considered that she wouldn't take a bottle! Dd1 bottles at 8-9mths but then as I say she was much keener on milk in general.

Dd2 gets cows milk in cereal and eats lots of yoghurts, cheese too. Hmmm I am quite confused now! I have started giving her water after meals and she does guzzle a lot of it. She is def thriving, 75th centile, nappies as you'd expect, very bright and cheery etc!

Sorry dd1 started bottles at 8-9mths that should read

It sounds like she is reverse cycling to me (bfing in the night rather than day) or even a form of nursing strike as some babies refuse feeds during the day but will take them when sleepy.

Have you tried feeding in a sling (perhaps carrying her in it for a bit before offering) or in a darken room (not great with an older child about but if you can get a chance ). Co-bathing might work as well too.

Strictly speaking, the usual guidance is offer a bf about an hour before complementary foods, but if your DD2 won't bf during the day and you are happy to continue night feeds then the easiest solution is to just carry on as you are (it would be completely understandable if you didn't want to though).

If you don't want to do reverse cycling or so many night feeds, then either finding a way to increase day feeds or giving formula (cup or beaker is fine - formula doesn't have to be in a bottle) though that may lead to premature cessation of bfing so depending on how you feel about that may inform how you proceed.

You could of course talk it over with one of the bfing helplines or a local bfing group if you wanted to.

Yes, I understand what you mean about not wanting to stop breastfeeding. My middle son absolutely refused to ever breastfeed again after i stopped the night feeds. He bit me, hard every time i tried and he was 7 months. I was totally engorged and on the verge of mastitis for a couple of weeks . But he was using me as a dummy all night and refusing to eat or drink during the day so it was a bit extreme ( and i guess the main point was i couldn't cope with the lack of sleep anymore). I guess i would want to sort the night feeds out before going back to work as that brings it's own challenges.

Could you give nice cosy feeds evening and morning and just place yourself off limits in between times ? She sounds like she's getting plenty of dairy/calcium in the day so I don't think I would worry about formula, but maybe make sure she's getting enough iron.

viewofthehills I got bitten too, hence me stopping trying so much during the day! I would get a swift sharp nip and a glare! Saying that, I have managed to feed her twice today, not long feeds but then I have always been quite surprised at how quickly she could feed. Fed her to sleep for a nap around 11, then again later in the afternoon so that is something!

truthsweet I had forgotten about reverse cycling, dd1 did this when I went back to work, understandably since I wasn't there in the day. Quite offended that dd2 is doing it even though I am here and offering!

Yes, iron was one of my concerns, I have to admit to being very laid back re dd1s diet at this stage because she still bf so much, I viewed it like a little vitamin supplement! So will just need to be more vigilant. Leafy greens are iron rich aren't they? Will google.

I should really look upon it as a positive thing, leaving dd1 was so hard as I felt she was so boob dependent, I guess I won't need to worry about that!

Also yes, I have a lovely Bfn near me, must pop in and ask! They were a lifeline with dd1.

I'm heartened to hear that noone thinks it is a drastic problem!