2 Week Old, Formula Fed....is she over-eating?

[LikeAnAdventCandleButNotQuite]

As above, my LO is 2 w/o and FF. She is now in some sort of 'routine' feeding 3 hourly during the day and 4 hourly between 7pm/7am. I was initially making 3oz bottles, but she was finishing these, so the last 4 days she's been having 4oz bottles. Today, every bottle she's had she's finished. I don't think I should be offering her 5oz as she's still so tiny.

She also seems all day today to be only just managing to go three hours.

Is this a possible growth spurt? She was 6lb 11 born, weighing 7lb 1 at her ten day check (dropped an oz at her 5 day check)

I know most on here BF, but I wondered if there are some FF mums who can advise?

I bottlefed DD1 for her first 8 weeks and she only had 2oz max a feed though she was on a 2 hourly schedule (she had jaundice and it was imposed by hospital) for first few weeks (it was a struggle to get her to have 2oz, she wanted more like 1-1.5oz) and took a max of 3oz even at 8 weeks. DD3 had bottles at 6m & 9m due to me being in hospital and she took a max of 4oz a time (took between 90-120mls a go about 8 times a day) even then.

My friend who ff, cue fed her DC and they both fed around 8-10 times a day when under 6m and took small amount like 2 or 3oz a go so it's not just bf babies that need to feed frequently or small amounts. Current guidance is to cue fed as and when baby needs it rather than feeding to a schedule.

There is a good article on bottle feeding responsively here that has lots of information on satiety cues from babies. You HV may have already shared this info with you so apols if it's old news!

HTH

Hi and congrats on your LO's arrival. I would say if she is draining her bottles then offer her another oz and see what she does. She'll let you know if she doesn't want it. Some babies take larger amounts than others. I used to dream of DD taking that much milk. She is 16wks now and only just on 6/7 oz bottles, whereas my friend's DD was on 5oz by 2wks and she wasn't a dissimilar weight to yours. She's 7 months now and perfectly fine.

TruthSweet - thank you for posting that link! I'm ff and really struggling to find useful info too, so thanks!

OP I'm feeding my 2wk old boy 120ml whatever that is in oz, he rarely finishes it except at night, he often only takes 70ml or so. The midwife recommended keeping him awake by tickling his toes to ensure he takes enough, otherwise he falls asleep when he's had enough. I'm sticking to 3 hourly during the day and trying to feed on demand at night, with varying success. He's been very windy and screamy at night, but Dr Brown bottles and Infacol have helped massively.

We're finding our way at the mo really. We need to keep him awake in the day so he's more tired at night!

DH is off work for 5 weeks - bliss - so hopefully we'll have it sorted between us by then!

Thanks for the link glad to see there is some support out there, also, for us FF'ers.

Saw the HV today, too, and she's said everything seems fine, eating wise, and LOs on track with her weight. Feel v.reassured, thanks.

Thanks for taking the link in the spirit it was intended. I was worried I was going to get flamed .

I just wish someone had told us how to bottle feed when DD1 was born as after she got over the worst of her jaundice, and we were able to stop prying her mouth open and forcefeeding her (she was too ill to even open her mouth), we still had no idea how to do it responsively so just used to shove the bottle in and would keep encouraging her to finish the bottle (she wouldn't most of the time).

Ah, regrets! I've had a few....

I have formula fed 3dds (youngest now 10 months) I have ff all 3 of mine on demand. Some days they had loads, other days not so much. They also cluster fed, all 3 of mine especially dd1 seemed to take loads in the late afternoon between 3.30pm - 6.00pm.

I never encouraged them to finish bottles, despite helpful advice from my Mum , they all seemed to settle themselves into some kind of routine. The amount of bottles they took also made absolutely difference to their sleep.

Wigglesrock - can I quiz you with some probably really obvious stuff? It's so hard to find info for ff.

If you ff on demand, which I do want to do, does that mean not waking babe for milk during the day or night but waiting for cues like crying, hard shaking etc? If you cluster feed and don't finish bottles, do you make up smaller amounts and just have loads of bottles made up in the fridge? At the moment we have 4 bottles and I'm making up two at a time for the fridge, and I confess it's a pita when he doesn't finish one as I know he'll be wanting more in about an hour, and then for hygiene it needs to be a new bottle. Our coldwater steriliser only fits two Dr Brown bottles in too, think I need another / a bigger one.

Thank you!

Head shaking! Not hard shaking! I don't shake my baby

Hugo - I hope Wiggles doesn't mind me jumping in here...

Crying is a very late sign of hunger, early signs are looking and licking (eyes scanning around the room and licking lips), wriggling (arms/legs pumping), rooting, and sucking on lips/fingers/hands (though some babies do this as a soothing action).

Oh Christ I never wake a sleeping baby . My dds have always made a restless sounding noise a bit like a mewl but not a cry, if that makes sense. They would raise their heads like truthsweet says have a bit of a nosy, then I would know I had about 10 mins before they would loudly demand to be fed . I always fed if possible before the crying started.

Usually I made up two bottles at a time but when I cottoned on to their "hungry" time I premade 3-4. I never varied the amount I made, it seems like a desperate waste of formula but by week 6 I was able to pre-empt how much they would take.

To be honest if it was a freshly made bottle I would use the same bottle with an hour window if she was fidgeting about taking it.

I know that there is a huge temptation to try and "be in charge"/ control feeding your baby but they are so little for such a short time (my dd3 is now taking a few steps and I am not ready for that ).

Dd1 settled herself into a routine really quickly - she fell into a four hour feeding routine by herself with the cluster feeding in the afternoon and she slept through at 9 weeks with absolutely no encouragement from us. Dd2 didn't sleep at all, no seriously, couldn't sleep without company and dd3 is in-between .

Enjoy every minute with your little girl, congratulations.

I was being brief with my descriptions of hunger signs, I am aware of his cues! Will bear in mind that crying is a late sign though.

Thanks for all the advice wiggle, that's encouraging that it won't necessarily prevent any kind of routine if I start feeding on demand. I have felt that demand feeding is what I want to do, but literally every midwife and my HV have pushed me to stick to 3-hourly feeding. I've asked them all! The HV was really firm about it, saying even if babe is screaming for milk to hold out til the scheduled time and give cooled boiled water instead to soothe. Not very intuitive! Also DH is sharing the load and doing at least half of feeds, and he seems a lot keener than me to establish a routine -mostly because if HCPs are telling us to do something, he accepts it on face value. When he goes back to work I can be more relaxed about it

Sorry I thought you were posting a list of hungry cues as you knew them from me too

That's very interesting Hugo - NHS guidelines say to feed baby when they are hungry not on a 3 hourly routine. I can't believe that they are still trotting out such old advice (well, I can believe it but you know what I mean!) especially as we know now that giving extra water when a baby is on a milk only diet is not only unnecessary but can be dangerous (can cause an imbalance in the electrolytes in the blood called hypernatraemia) exceptions do apply though.

that is scary Truth, the midwife in the hosp said babies who are ff should be given about an oz of water daily to prevent constipation, so when the HV said to use it as a soothing tool it seemed logical.

(sorry for complete hijack OP, just excited to find fellow ff-ers on here!)

Do you have any links about not giving water to babies Truth? Wiki page on hypertraemia doesn't mention that it can be caused in babies by giving water.

Ahem, I meant HYPOnatreamia nothyper x 100. Hypernatraemia in babies is caused by insufficent milk intake or by adding extra formula powder to bottles (e.g. 5 scoops instead of 4).

Links for HYPOnatraemia here, here, here and here.

An oz a day possibly wouldn't do any harm (obviously depending on the size and fluid intake of the baby) past the newborn stage but delaying feeds by giving bottles of water could easily do so, especially if baby was on a growth spurt and all of their feeds a day were 'postponed' in this way by giving a bottle of water.

Some babies are hungrier than others so it's hard to say how much is enough and whether 3 hourly feeds is the right schedule. I'm surprised your HCPs were all so intent on pushing for scheduled feeds. Maybe she is going too long between feeds? 3 hours is quite a long time for a 2 week old, especially if they're in a growth spurt. My DS was a very hungry baby and is only just stabilising now into 3 hourly feeds (apart from night-times when he goes longer) and sometimes will still get hungry within 2 hours.

Also, could she be going through the 3 week growth spurt a bit earlier? DS went on a crazy feeding binge at 2 weeks, nothing was enough for him, which was a major reason why I ended up going from BF to mixed feeding.

Sorry should add - DS is now 3 months

Truth! Thank you for those links, I will never feed DS water again

Today we fed DS on demand and it worked out as similar amounts and frequency, but a lot less stressful for us as there was no pressure to get him to finish bottles, and if he fussed between feeds it wasn't us or him getting it wrong, it just meant he was hungry. So obvious but so much better, he has barely cried at all today - that's me, DH and DS's faces!

I had an awful experience in hospital - I had intended to breastfeed but was in so much pain after a section with mucho blood loss and various complications, I was doped up with morphine and despite breastfeeding in recovery and several times successfully, I was told I wasn't feeding him enough and the bf counsellor was erm not very understanding or kind, and was so dismissive of the pain I was in and how it was affecting myfeeding. Anyway I ended up giving him formula in the hosp and it was so good to see him happy and fed, so I just decided to continue. I don't regret it as it has meant DH can share the load, but I do feel like a failure for not managing to bf, complex emotions even though I'm glad I'm ff as I can grab several hours of sleep when DH is here!

Sorry for rant, I'm quite emotional about itall, I just feel like I don't have a clue and am just doing what everyone tells me instead of being all motherly and intuitive anyway anyway. Binning stupid imposed routines will definitely help, I want to give my baby what he wants, not palm him off with water or force him to effectively starve because he doesn't fit in with what I want.

(sorry again to OP for massivehijack)

Really don't feel bad that you have done as you have been told - how were you to know and when you felt it wasn't right you asked and looked at the evidence and made your own mind up (I hope you don't feel I badgered you into changing anything?).

As far as I see it, your instincts are good, if you were certain the HV was right you wouldn't have even paid any attention to anything else. You have good motherly instincts, you just had a little self doubt that's all, it happens to the best of us (am not classing myself as the best by any means!).

Are you doing skin to skin with baby? That can really help you feel all motherly and helps bonding too. Bfing or ffing, it's also good for babies to feed skin to skin as oxytocin is released through s2s contact and oxytocin helps digestion (oxytocin receptors on the outside of the gut). You don't have to do it all the time (might get a few odd looks in Costa) and Dad can do it too.

Baby massage is good too. Ask your HV if there is any local NHS classes running or check with SureStart children's centres as they often run them too.

Hi just wanted to say my ds is 10 months now and in the beginning we used a flask when making up formula feeds as they don't advise keeping bottles in the fridge now. This worked realy well at night and when out.

I did find a link on a thread before that stated using a flask is a safe way of making up formula, we were advised to do it this way by mw in neonatal. Just thought it might come in handy for anyone who is making feeds from scratch every time and having to wait for the kettle to boil etc

www.tesco.com/landing?TIDSI=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdirect.tesco.com%2Fq%2FR.206-9342.aspx%3Futm_source%3DGoogleShopping%26utm_medium%3DGSF_NormalFeed%26utm_campaign%3DGSF_TescoDirect%26utm_content%3D206-9342