4 day old DD not opening mouth wide

[Snowgirl1]

Our DD is 4 days old and we're bfing. It's getting quite uncomfortable and I think it's partly because DD doesn't open her mouth really wide so the latch isn't as deep as it could be. Any ideas on what I can do to get DD to open really wide? I'm rubbing my nipple on her nose and down to her mouth to try to try to get her to open wide. Any other suggestions?

You could try exaggerated latch (aka 'The Flipple') or Biological Nurturing to help baby get their mouth opening wide.

Has baby been checked for a tongue tie by a trained HCP? TT can sometimes make it difficult for baby to open wide and latch on well (not saying your baby definitely has it just that it's worth getting it checked out).

HTH.

Are you also tipping her head back?

Thanks, TruthSweet, I'll have a look at those links.

The midwife looked at the baby and said she didn't think she had TT. She seems to manage to stick her tongue out to below her bottom lip. I'll ask the next mw to have a look when she comes on Tue.

G1nger, do you mean physical using my hand to tip the baby's head back? If so, no, I haven't tried that - the NCT feeding class I went to said we shouldn't touch the baby's head and that the baby would just tip her head back and open nice and wide then...latch. Do you suggest trying to tip her head back with my hand?

Thanks again

my twins were like this, i struggled to even get the bottle in their mouth. They were like this till they were about 4 months (DTS still doesnt open his mouth wide for a spoon and he is 17 months now). The only thing i could do was wait and watch then take the chance the second they opened their mouths. Rubbing their cheek sometimes made them open their mouths. Its very frustrating

If you tuck baby under your opposite arm so they are lying diagonally from you slightly (foot end closer to you than the head end!) that can help (also means you don't have to hold breast away from baby's nose). That can make latching easier for some mums/babies.

Also, when you latch the chin hits the breast first then lower lip, nipple in their mouth and aimed at the roof of their mouth not straight in, then upper lip.

If you start moving baby towards the nipple when they start to open their mouth you end up getting baby on when they are at their widest. If you only start to latch when they have opened wide they will be closing it as you are trying to latch.

Lips should be flared out (fish lips ) and the cheeks nice and softly rounded not sucked in like they are sucking on a straw.

Videos here of babies latching so you can see what to look for.

HTH (and made some sense at least)

Yes, Snowgirl- you're right in thinking that you shouldn't hold the back of the head. Babies don't tend to like it as it restricts them and some can arch away.

Even though your baby can stick her tongue out past the bottom lip, I wouldn't definitely rule out tt. Some can be hard to spot so it is worth asking again.

Oh and you can also show your DD your mouth wide open and say 'open'. Sounds a bit weird, but some mothers have found success with this.

crikey - I did that but with sticking my tongue out with DD1 and it worked! Did look a prize lemon though while doing it but a small price to pay

Yes, I tipped my baby's head back slightly - not far, just to get the angle so to position the nipple where it needs to be. If your baby doesn't like it, there's no harm in having tried.

Just nipping in briefly. Ditto the suggestion to check for tongue tie as not opening mouth wide is a definate potential for it, and midwives are generally not trained in how to check. While some TT babies can't stick out their tongue, others can, just to be confusing. Here's a list of some other common symptoms: www.ann-dobson.co.uk/tongue-tie_symptoms.html

You might need to ask to be referred to your local tongue tie clinic, if there is one, or be even more pro-active and find a local private specialist.

Or it could be something else of course :) but I wouldn't discount it by any means.

My baby was like this, and it resulted in very sore cracked nipples - hope you dont suffer the same, its awful!

One mistake I made was repeatedly "settling" for a bad latch just because it got so frustrating for both of us to keep taking him off, this is a really bad idea though! Eventually a passage in Ina May Gaskin's book (Guide to Breastfeeding) helped me realise my mistake, she points out that with a bad latch the baby is getting much less milk, so the feed will take longer plus the baby is "learning" to keep doing a bad latch so the problem will continue. As hard as it is you MUST keep taking the baby off when they latch badly (even if you have to do it 50 times). As Ina May says, they are very motivated to learn, the large amounts of milk that they get when they do latch well is enough of a reward for them to remember how to do it right the next time. Once they do learn, things get much better very quickly.

I tried biological nurturing too and it really worked, I noticed though that my son started doing huge gapes when I put him lying across my tummy (me lying on my back slightly raised with pillows) - though its very hard for them to get latched on while they are so young and their heads are so wobbly. Then when I went back to cradle hold he did his normal small mouthed thing! Its really worth trying lots of different positions, and if you see the huge gape, at least it reassures you that your baby CAN do it. (and if you dont see it at all, you should look into the TT thing more)

good luck, hope it gets better soon

I found the football/rugby hold to be a really good one to practice on.

I can second the suggestion to show baby a wide open mouth, say open wide, and also I gently draw the chin down to help baby feel his mouth openign when I give verbal cue. This really improved things.

Also to encourage open mouth you are supposed to touch nipple to baby's top lip only, according to Jack newman website.

Definitely do not settle for a poor latch. I would hold baby and keep repeating open wide till I saw mouth opening a little wider and I would shape the breast for baby so he could take more nipple. Try to see a lactation consultant asap to help you with this.

Are things any better now snowgirl?