is there a minimum time to leave between feeds?

[celandine]

DS, 2.5 weeks, finishes both sides in 15 minutes each and then roots for more. I put him back on but it feels like my breasts are empty and I have nthing left to give, so it's sore when he sucks and he whimpers at the breast as if frustrated and upset at lack of ready milk.

Can a breast be ready to give again in 15 minutes, and if so would inevitably this just be for a short feed? I really don't know if milk is just produced all the time while baby sucks away, or if you have to wait for more to come in.

DS only gained 1 oz last week after initial weight loss and gain of 9oz so i am very concerned i am not producing enough.

I'm also very small-chested so have a theory that I can't hold as much milk at one time 'per breast' as a larger breasted woman due to less actual 'storage space. Anyone else experienced this?

As long as baby is sucking, you will keep making milk. I also have teeny bosoms but they still function fine for feeding. If you are timing feeds then perhaps give 20-30 minutes on each side before you swap over? I'm sure you will get some good advice. Keep at it - you are doing a great job.

don't worry... your breasts produce milk constantly, and the more your baby sucks, the more you will produce!
let him feed whenever he wants, he'll settle down into a pattern eventually

even if this goes on for 2-3 hours which it does at night?

Be careful with your latch. Even hours of sucking shouldn't hurt if the latch is right - I speak as someone who has been feeding their bloomin 11 month old all bloomin evening!
Your ds is gaining weight. he's human not a machine (ditto you) so it won't be exactly the same every week. Keep feeding and you will make more milk.

Yes evening constant-feeding is VERY normal and baby will go through stages of doing this to increase your supply. It IS awful but it doesn't last FOREVER. It might help to sit with nothing on your top half so that you can air your nipples - but different things work for different people, some like nipple creams like Lasinoh. Baby might feed for several hours. If it gets too much for you, you might want to try a dummy WITH CAUTION - this might calm baby a bit. But at the end of the day this is how your baby is increasing your supply, so try to just sit back and watch telly and let baby keep sucking. Good luck - this part is grim but in a few weeks you will be a pro. xx

celandine - when bf is working well, the breasts never empty. The more frequent the feeds, the more quickly milk is made. It shouldn't be sore when he sucks. Yes, women's storage capacity differs, though it's not related to breast size which just reflects the amount of fat in the breasts - though coincidentally your storage capacity may be small.

I don't know if you are producing enough - a weight gain of 10 ounces in a fortnight is within normal limits, however, and your baby can show by his behaviour and his nappies all is well - he should produce a number of soft yellow poos every day.

Hope this helps.

thanks everyone for the replies. I am probably being really dumb but I still am confused. If breasts really are never empty, does this mean that a baby could in theory suck for many hours in a row and still be constantly getting milk? If so, doesn't this 'feed for 20 minutes on each side' give a misleading idea about howsupply works? Why can't someone just let a baby continue for as long as it wants to on one side per feed?

I'm really bemused about this and it's getting to me because I'm spending tearful hours awake each night with ds seemingly very frustrated whilst sucking at either breast for the 6th time in 2 hours in order to get him back to sleep. I get completely lost then, and actally pretty upset. I haven't a clue how to do it right when he falls asleep after 5-10 minutes but wakes upon removal of breast from mouth (even when co-sleeping next to me). Then do i just put him back on the same side or keep swapping? He would willingly stay on forever whether awake or asleep!

I guess I'd be happier to be doing it if I knew he was at least getting milk all the time. I know it's not an exact science but I really do need reassurance on this supply issue as ds seems so blinkin' hungry all day and night!

He's getting milk all the time.

At 2.5 weeks, your supply is still settling down, and it may be that he's trying to increase your supply.

I'm glad to hear you're cosleeping, that makes it easier for both of you. If you can relax and fall asleep while he feeds, that's the best plan. Switch sides when you wake up again.

The thing is, he'd probably rather sleep with your nipple in his mouth. Until a few weeks ago, he was in you. When he's latched on, he knows he's safe, he knows where he is.

Oh, yeah, and "feed 20 minutes each side" is rubbish. It's best to let a baby finish on each side, as they see fit, if you can.

My DS2 never took more than 10 minutes per side when he was tiny. "Feed 20 minutes per side" is the same as saying "you must pee for 1 minute". It just doesn't work that way.

Thanks not quitecockney, i know you're right about him feelin secure by keeping nipple in his mouth. I'm just VERY sore and VERY tired after no more than 3 hours a night since he was born. Also, you've just said it yourself 'let a baby finish on each side'. How do i know he's finished if he never lets go and a soft breast doesn't indicate anything? All he does is fall asleep and he does this so frequently and swiftly after latching on that I'd be assuming he'd finished after just 2 minutes!

My DS1 was like this. You can swap sides whenever it's convenient for you and him. If he's feeding continually, I wouldn't leave him on the same side for hours. If I was awake.

Please do try to sleep while he feeds. You are feeding with low lights, if any? (I'm hoping you don't need to see what's going on to sort latch?)

This phase does pass. But the more he feeds in these early days, particularly at night, the more milk you will make.

(Any hope of your DH/DP taking your DS out for a two-hour walk in the pram or sling so he can sleep at some point, so you can get a quality nap, night or day?)

Oh, my supply has been a lot better for DS2 (he had a better start, supply gets better with each baby, and we never used nipple shields), but he still likes to swap. Now that he's 15 months, he'll happily spend half an hour in bed with me, just changing sides at will. He'll often do "left, right, left, right, left". Or even more than that. He wouldn't bother if there wasn't anything there, even though my boobs are almost always soft these days.

but....GREAT to know he's always gettinh milk. Makes it much easier to oblige then !

Hey, you know, even if he's not getting loads of milk - he's getting comfort. Which is something babies (and children, and adults) need nearly as much as food. Oh, and he's improving your supply.

awww, fab to know you've had the same thing.This is DS2 i'm talking about. With DS1 i gave up after 10 days as he lost weight after initial weight loss. I really want to stick it out more with DS2 but am getting very demoralised.

I can only feed lying down on my left side so have to sit up bolstered by pillows for other side. And I have to use a small booklight to latch him on cos otherwise it doen't work. And it still takes ages to latcb him on properly and he'll fuss himself and wrench the nipple around anyway so there's no way I could sleep. it's hard to do cos I'm so small-breasted, so i'm rapidly going off this position anyway.

Celandine, it is so demoralising when you feel like they are not getting enough, and easy to blame every problem that the baby has on your milk / lack of milk / quality of milk etc. I would let him feed as often and as long as he wants, and if he seems to be getting dissatisfied on one side, try the other - the change of view might please him as much as anything

I read something about in traditional cultures the babies feed on average every 13 minutes - I think that was the figure. I was completely taken aback at how often ds wanted to feed when he was little. Now he is older and can tell me what he wants, he often complains "There's no milkies left!" but within a few seconds will be sucking away happily again. From this I think there must be gaps in between the let down of different sections of milk ducts. Just my guess. But the milk definitely keeps coming if they keep sucking. There's lots of great support on here for breastfeeders so keep posting with your worries, won't you?

I'm glad to hear you're persevering. Positioning gets much easier as time goes on, and both of you get more competant.

Once he's asleep, with nipple in mouth, can you sleep?

I'm fairly small-breasted, and a relatively big girl otherwise, but always found feeding lying down easiest. You can change the angle you lie at to change the height of your nipple, iyswim. It's helpful to have a pillow under your top leg, so you can lean forward comfortably. Does that make sense?

If you're still struggling with positioning (at all) in a week or two, it'd be worth talking to your local BFC. They can watch you feed, and talk to you about options, iyswim.

Thanks, i do feel very encouraged by what you've both written. Cockney, I rugbyball-style feed on my right side so maybe this is why i can't lie down on this side to feed. Yes, i could sleep with his mouth still on me and think i have (weird dreams about nipple-twanging!|)
Thanks, i will let you know how things go in next few days

Ah, I never got rugby-style working. Cross-cradle might work for you?

Oh, and please do keep posting. I'm far from the only (unqualified) breastfeeding support around here, and there are a few qualified folks, too.

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just an update on this. DS2 is now 8 weeks and gaining well, 6-8oz a week as recommended. Breastfeeding going much better during the day, although nights are a real challenge (but that's another topic)

It seemed to improve at 5 weeks and any pain which was there has gone now. He feeds every 2-3 hours during the day for about 40 minutes both sides, which i feel is a long time but he doesn't take himself off so I'm not sure when to stop him.

I still can't feed very well on my side at night and can't feed in public on my right side because of rugby-style hold (nothing to rest him on!!) so there's lots of things re breastfeeding which are a hassle, but I feel good to have got this far with it.

Thanks for all the advice on this. Now off to start another thread re the awful night feeds!

celandine, good to hear from you. Everything sounds normal and just as expected

Just to add: keep practising to improve the comfort levels of the diff positions. As your baby grows, you might find it changes.