Grief, shame and guilt at bf failure, even years later?

[niminypiminy]

I thought it was all far behind me when I found myself weeping the other day when a friend described in rhapsodic terms her time bf her first born.

The first weeks and months of my first child's life were dominated by the agony of grief and shame I felt at failing to bf the child I had wanted so desperately.

Every bit of well meaning advice was like a knife to my heart. Every time I saw someone do it I was scorched with envy and shame. And it went on and on, and didn't seem to fade.

For reasons too complicated to go into now, I gave up bf child no 2 very early. The pain wasn't quite so searing this time, but it was still there.

Is there anyone else still haunted by the pain of failure, months and years later, or am I the only one?

(A heartfelt plea: this thread is not for anyone who wants to proselytise about lack of support for bf. I have suffered enough at the (albeit unwitting) hands of the advocates of bf. This thread, if it becomes a thread, is for support for us, the failures.)

Op - you have described exactly how I feel about ds1.
My experience of feeding ds2 has been more successful entirely due to better support and whilst I am obviously hugely grateful for this, it has made me feel even more guilty about ds1.
There was a recent thread about how natural bf is and therefore how easy it should be. This made me feel like a huge failure.
And yes I too would use the word failure.
I don't think I am depressed or need counselling but it was definitely one of the saddest points in my life and I feel ashamed that I failed my son (who is super healthy and lovely and emotionally stable afaik btw).

I'm another one, niminy, who understands, identifies, and agrees entirely with what you're saying.

Tiktok, your posts are, as usual, very interesting and well-written and authoritative (I recognise that you are an authority on this subject, and I don't mean to suggest that the tone is inappropriate). However, I don't see how it's helpful to second-guess the OP as to the reasons for her feelings, when she has already stated the reasons herself.

She felt that she failed her child in her first task as a mother, and for her, "the way bf is promoted was a causal factor in those feelings." For you to tell her that "the feelings you have of sadness and grief are real and exist whether or not there is promotion and support" does come across as an unwillingness to just accept the validity of what she's saying about her own experience and her own feelings.

I appreciate your acknowlegment that breastfeeding promotion can make bad feelings worse for those of us who tried and failed, but the idea that bf organisations are "massively sensitive to this" is laughable in my experience and, apparently, in the experience of OP and others on this thread.

FWIW, I don't think it's massively sensitive to throw "obfuscation and denial" into the mix on a thread which OP has made clear was meant as a place of support for the 'failures'.

I'm sure you're intentions are good, as they always seem to be. And I don't mean to be argumentative. But I really wish that women like OP (and I) were afforded enough respect to be taken at their word when they say "this is how I felt, and this is what made me feel that way."

you're your , of course.

OneHand, I stayed off the thread until it became a more general, broader discussion, in order not to appear as if I was denying any individual's experience. I did not deny niminy's experience at all - you can't have read my posts properly if you thought I said that. I affirmed her experience and pointed out that some women shared it, from years and years before there was any promotion of breastfeeding, so I suggested that this whole thing (deep sadness at the experience of feeding) can't be planted solely at the door of promotion - while agreeing that promotion is a 'dangerous' game as it can exacerbate these feelings.

The 'obfuscation and denial' were about the women who stop bf/don't start bf while not being able to articulate their own true feelings , in my post about how complex these feelings can be...some women say they didn't want to bf and yet they did, some women say they do want to bf and yet they don't. I am not judging anyone or not respecting them - just going a bit further than the surface.

I am taken aback that you think my views are not affording women respect - that's unfair.

But I will stay away from the thread as it may be that it is more supportive to leave it as a support thread for people to share their own experiences.

I would certainly never presume to ask anyone to stay away from any thread, Tiktok, and I hope that my post was not misconstrued in that way.

I was simply posting my response to what you had to say, as I would with any other poster.

I didn't think you were asking me to stay away!

You must think I am daft! :)

It's sad to hear, OP, that your grief about bf goes back so many years. Surely the achievements and longstanding health of your children and your successful (I assume since you obviously care a lot) parenting since then outweighs this one 'failure' early on? Are you maybe building up guilt about not bf-ing as a way of expressing some other sorrow about being a parent?

I do think it's damaging the way parenting 'support' networks obsess so much over 'breast is best' and that it is immensely important for bonding with your baby. We all know that bf is the optimal nutrition for babies but personally, I found that bf-ing was so hard and painful and difficult, it actually hurt the bond with my baby and made me too stressed to enjoy time with him.

There should be more emphasis on long-term parenting skills and bonding generally rather than BF as the be-all and end-all, I think.

If it's any consolation, I was watching 'Mrs Dickens Christmas' on the BBC and it said that Dickens' wife couldn't breastfeed her first two children and felt desperately sad about it and depressed. It shows that problems with bf have always existed and it's not the easy natural thing that some people would have you believe. Back then of course she would have had to employ a wet nurse - at least now we can still feed our babies ourselves, even if it's via a bottle of formula, and still keep that nurturing relationship going.

Tiktok, it's very useful for me to hear that the problems I had with my first son, who simply refused to bf, and didn't really want to have much to do with any kind of food, were more serious than a bf counsellor could have dealt with. I do wonder if they could in reality have ever been overcome; but no-one can now say for sure.

My lovely community midwife, who did her best to help me bf, said something that I will never forget and will always bless her for. She said, 'Never, ever say that formula is a bad thing. Formula is a life saver. Never forget that without formula there are some babies who would have starved.' In my professional life I am a historian specialising in the Victorian period, and I know only too well that the golden age of breastfeeding was also the golden age of infant mortality.

You make a very perceptive point, InMyChime about feelings about bf failure expressing other kinds of sorrow about being a parent. It is true, I think, that these things all roll up together. I do have other things I am sad about (here, though, is not the place to discuss them) in the way my life as a mother, particularly the mother of my first son, has panned out.

But I have felt for a long time, notwithstanding the complexities of my experience, that this was something that needed to be said -- because it is an unvoiced and I believe common experience that failure to bf is acutely and lastingly painful. Actually catharsis for my own feelings was the least important, although I chose to use my own experience of giving weight to what I said.

niminy, I'm back again, only to respond to your post, though :)

Need to ask you to check your history - the Victorian age was absolutely not the golden age of breastfeeding...far from it. In urban areas, working class babies were rarely exclusively breastfed (their mothers went to work in the factories and sweatshops without their infants) and many were weaned from the breast early. This was associated with high levels of mortality.

The Victorian middle classes tended not to breastfeed beyond the first weeks (they used wet nurses at the start of the Victorian era; as the century progressed, they were more likely to use one of the growing numbers of proprietary baby foods usually in addition to boiled cows milk). Queen Vic. herself did not breastfeed - she thought the idea of bf one's own children was either comical or disgusting (see her letters to and from her daughter Alice, who did breastfeed - to the horror of her mother!). Middle class infant mortality was high by today's standards.

Today's widespread use of formula, and biologically early weaning from the breast, began with the Victorians.

Tbh, I think you are being very silly and need to get some perspective. You are miserable because of something you had no control over and which had no negative impact on your child's life.

If you were an impoverished third worlder whose child died from your 'failure', then you would be suffering genuine trauma. Your kid got still got well fed and being a rich westerner got better nutrition than most in this world.

You are doing a lot more damage to your children by your depression, negativity, self pity and hysteria than formula ever could.

That may sound harsh but I make no apology for telling you the truth (and it is). Indulging your self imposed misery with sympathy will only encourage your depression obsession and make you feel worse in the long run. Be grateful that you have no real problems in your life that would distract you from this manufactured one.

Sometimes to be happy we just need to get over ourselves.

(with apologies to those who have been bored with this story before)

My guilt is the opposite: for persevering with breastfeeding when dd was losing weight and gradually turning weaker. Fortunately, the HVs managed to talk me into seeing a paed who had her admitted to hospital straightaway; looking at photographs taken at the time, I can now see what I didn't see at the time. But I was so convinced that nothing could go wrong because I was doing everything right and I had plenty of support and dd's latch was right and I was overflowing with milk.

Besides, I was proud of hailing from the country with the best breastfeeding rates in the world: I felt superior to the less-breastfeeding Brits and thought HVs who talked about problems were probably pushing an agenda and anyway bound to be far inferior to the medical professionals of my own country

It was only 10 years later that I realised that dd's ability to suckle was affected by a medical condition we didn't know she had, and that my attitudes or abilitites or background were neither here nor there. I was unable to breastfeed dd effectively for the same reasons that dd is currently unable to walk. Sometimes there are things that with the best will in the world you cannot give your child.

Along the road I (and in some instances the medical professionals) have made many mistakes over dd. Some of them have done harm. I wouldn't say I spend my days in self-induced negativity and hysteria- but I do sometimes have flashbacks, which include feelings of guilt. I think this is perfectly natural and shouldn't be another reason to beat myself up.

Funnily enough, I get stronger flashbacks about the breastfeeding experience than about the time dd nearly died falling off the climbing frame (another instance of my being unable to accept that my child was different) or about the fact that her joints may have been irreparably harmed because I pushed her to do physio that was too much for her.

There is something about breastfeeding that touches you very deeply. I can see the OPs pov.

Bobbledunk, your statement "Be grateful that you have no real problems in your life that would distract you from this manufactured one" is uncalled for. You either have not read all my posts or you have not read them carefully. Please do so before you speak so uncharitably. And then remember that what I have chosen to reveal in this public forum is not the entire story of my life -- which does, as I have said, include some things to do with my children that anybody would feel sad about.

Tiktok I think that is a skewed picture of the Victorian period. It is clear that bf was absolutely normal for most women. The aristocracy were significantly different in their attitudes to the (far more numerous) middle class; and most working class women, though they had to work, suckled their own children.

Cory, I feel very touched by your story. My son, who would not bf, turned out later to have an ASD, and I think that was part of the reason for my bf failure. I think you are right that there is something about bf that touches you very deeply. I also think because it is one's first experience of nurturing a baby it colours what happens subsequently. In that sense, I think it is primal in 'setting our coordinates' for maternity, and why it hurts when it goes wrong.

I tried to BF my DS, now 4, but due to IUGR and low birth weight he was formula feed straight away at hospital and then never took to the breast despite lots of effort. I felt guilty mainly because MIL banging on about 'breast is best' made me feel less of a mother.

DD now 7 months, breast fed at birth but conciously gave up breast feeding at about 3 weeks as she wanted it every hour, middle of summer, on my own with 2 young kids, no family around and an energetic DS who obviously wanted to enjoy the weather. Switched to FF and our days became less dictated by the need to BF.

Having been in both camps, wanted to breast feed but couldn't and then actively choosing not too, I now honestly feel that overall it's just one of the numerous elements of a child's upbringing but there seems to be a huge emotional significance attached to BF. As long as your child has a good overall diet, is a balanced individual, knows right from wrong and can go on to become a well adjusted adult does it really matter in the scheme of things what we feed them (BF/FF) in those first few months perhaps year of life?

niminy, my picture not skewed at all - you described the Victorian era as a golden age for breastfeeding. This is just not true.

Of course most working class women suckled their own children, and of course it was normal to do so for most women. But (read my post) the urban working class tended to not breastfeed exclusively and early weaning from the breast was common.

I stick by the rest of my post, too. Middle class women tended not to breastfeed for long (this is why the Victorian middle class family was so numerous - no/little use of contraception + curtailed bf = a baby every year or so).

This is a bit of a side issue from your main point, but it's worth being correct about for the sake of historical accuracy :) You made the point that more breastfeeding existed alongside higher infant mortality - but if the Victorian urban working class had breastfed more, infant deaths would have lessened. But it was often not possible.

I feel really touched by your post and share some of your feelings. I desperately wanted to breastfeed and according to about 20+ different midwives, HVs and b/feeding counsellors I was "doing everything right" (latch correct, skin to skin etc etc). But nevertheless my DD kept losing weight and after 3 weeks were eventually told to by GP to either give her formula or be admitted for tube feeding. Obviously we took the formula.

I felt sad and guilty for a long time, being the only one in my NCT group to formula feed. For a long time I convinced myself that the bond with my DD was broken, and I suffered severe PND requiring hospitalisation.

Since having my DS I have breast fed him exclusively for the past 3 months. I realise now that there was nothing I could have done differently with DD. My DS has taken to it beautifully, my DD did not. It was not my fault. It was not her fault either. Having my DS has been a really healing experience and given me a lot of perspective. And as for the bonding, breastfeeding is just one part of the story. There is nothing that cannot be made up for with emotional closeness in a miriad of other ways.

My son is now just coming up to 1. Still now I am upset at times at the fact that we didn't achieve the bf relationship that I had imagined. His tongue tie was diagnosed at 10days (why on earth they didn't check for this whilst we were there for 3 nights after birth and struggling i have no idea.) and he had the snip at 2 weeks or so.....by that point and due to blood transfusions i had and limited pumping success my supply was very low. For 12 weeks i did a combination of bf, expressed feeds and formula feeds - I felt awful.....MIL was kept saying "just try him again now", he was 6 weeks before we achieved any kind of latch without shields.....i was very stressed and also maybe a bit of PTSD due to what was for me quite a traumatic induction, i'm not sure, but for certain feelings of inadequacy in both labour and bf exacerbated each other. I am still not completely at peace, in that i still get a little upset when i read other stories like mine, but do now see that it is not the defining factor in my relationship with my son......since we started weaning i have felt like i was no longer judged by the outside world and constantly explaining to anyone who saw me with a bottle why i wasn't bf, so in that respect it is a lot easier for me now. Big hugs to you - we all need to support each other as much as possible......it's nice to find a thread that is of this nature alone for a change! (On a more random note i think this whole motherhood thing is definitely making me a better, more humble and compassionate and less judgy person.......if it had all been plain sailing i may have turned out a smug bitch! Not saying anyone else is but it could have been me!)

Sirry Tiktok that was my mistake. Since my last post and then reading your post in response to mine, I have phoned the hospital and asked about the BF counsellors who were there. There were 3 from LLL, 2 NCT who were living and working around the area and 3 had moved to other parts of the country, had come back for a few days to see relatives and dropped into the hospital get a bit more experience as a BF counsellor. According to the person I spoke to, about 3 of them were still training as BF counsellors (all the LLL BFC's had qualified), but not sure if they qualified and back then I was lead to believe that they were all qualified. So apologies for the mistake on my behalf.

Avenged, thanks for clarifying. I think you have seen peer supporters, some of whom may have been in training as you say, and been observing only. There just aren't that number of LLL bf counsellors (LLL calls them 'leaders') for 3 to be working in the same hospital alongside 2 NCT bfcs/peer supporters, and NCT bfcs simply would not drop in for experience unless this was formally arranged. We just don't work like that.

I am as certain as I can be they did not look down their noses at you. They would have been unable to offer formal support because you were already a 'medical' case and outside their boundaries. What you saw as 'looking down their noses' was them not knowing what to say - a training issue, probably, as silence should not be an option as it is so easily misinterpreted as a judgement :(

I agree Tiktok, it's becoming a bit more clearer now and they could have been peer supporters, but I assumed they were all qualified as they all seemed to know what they were doing, until faced with my case (I'm known for stumping Drs at times and normally have them scratching their heads as to what's wrong). I just think they could have said something/anything instead of walking away and not coming anywhere near me, and I found it unnerving that they did it after I told them that the Drs gave DS 1 or 2 bottles because he had been away from me for so long. I'm not going to dwell on it TBH as it's all in the past and should really be left there.

My problem was that from the first latch and up until I stopped BF DS at 4.5m, my nipples were absolute agony. The pain was excruciating and I had to stop at 4.5m because if I had kept BF, I would have been 6ft under due to the nipple pain. It was horrendous.

TikTok do you have any research for the body in grief?

It would be an amazing thing to put in my dissertation

Humpty - if you are doing a dissertation you will have access to your university library....if you do a search you will find several hits. You'd be looking in the psychological/psychodynamic/psychoanalytic/psychosomatic/maternal-reproductive journals.

I am reluctant to post links here - I don't want to be in discussion about this area of thought as it does not appear to be the 'right' thread, sorry. It's fairly uncontroversial that the body (especially the endocrinology of the body) and the mind/'spirit' are influenced by each other, but maybe here is not the best place to explore that .

Our library is pretty crap but thanks for the search hits