Talk to me about night weaning.

[FutureNannyOgg]

So DS is 16 months, and a serious milk monster. He's cut back during the day to 3/4 feeds (he can do less with lots of distraction and solids, but makes a huge fuss if I am around and he fancies some milk), but he has this thing for feeding in the early hours near continuously, he's fed like this for as long as I can remember, and I'm not sure I can deal with this going on any more.

He sleeps in a cot by our bed, but I bring him into bed with me when he first wakes to feed (often I am so sleepy when this happens I don't actually remember doing it), I usually fall asleep feeding or settling him, then wake up when he wants to feed again, so he doesn't usually go back.

I started unlatching him when his sucking gets sleepy, and rocking him, which means he isn't hanging off my nipple for hours on end, and that is an improvement, but he still drops off to sleep then wakes half an hour later wanting to feed again. Last night I counted at least 6 times that I woke up to find him wanting a feed and switched sides. Sometimes I try to settle him without feeding, but this usually means half an hour or so of screaming before he drops off, for a short while, before waking again for a feed. I have tried getting his dad to rock him to sleep but the result isn't much better. Sometimes he will take water from a beaker instead, but not every time, and he needs to be more awake to do so, which makes him harder to settle.

I'm expecting DC2 now, I'm finding nursing him is leaving me really sore, and I desperately need some proper sleep.

I don't really want/need to completely night wean him, I would be happy to cut down to one good feed, rather than continuous grazing, but I am not sure if he would find that more confusing.

DH was at his wits end this morning (after I handed DS over once for him to settle so I could get an hour off) and suggested putting him in his own room and leaving him to CIO. This is absolutely not an option. I want to do this gently and sympathetically.

I should add, he eats loads of solids, and drinks water/juice during the day.

Hello. Congrats on your pregnancy :)

You could continue to try offering a drink first, or singing a song. I always sing the same song to my DD1 so she associates it with sleep.

Would you describe him as quite a high needs baby? Have you read Nighttime Parenting by Dr Sears? There are loads of nice ideas in there. There is also a list of ideas on his website for night weaning (or not)

I night weaned my son at about 11 months. When he woke up for his feed DH would go in and resettle him, the first night it took about 90 mins, the second night 20 and the third about 15 mins. On the fourth night he slept through and has done pretty much since. I tried doing it myself but I think the smell of milk didn't help things and I found it v difficult knowing I could settle him so easily by feeding him, it was too tempting not to! DS was in his own room though so perhaps this wouldn't work as well for you as he would be able to see you. Perhaps you could swap sides with your DH do you're not so close?

Are you me?? Other than that DS is 20 months and I'm not pregnant, I could have written your post!

I have started letting him have that first feed when he comes into our bed, but after that telling him "all gone, you can have more in the morning", and then DH cuddles him to sleep. It seems to work, but it's worse atm because we've just gone cold turkey on the dummies and he likes something in his mouth when he's falling asleep.

Will he move to his own room when dc2 arrives? If so you need to move sooner so there's no link between the move and baby. Then you can set up a bed in his room and get your DH to resettle after each waking? That's how we weaned DS (he was already in his own room). It was upsetting hearing DS scream for me but he was ok and after a while I could resettle at night without feeding. I was pregnant and sore from feeding too!

Other option is for you to stay in his room with a small bed and put him down after a feed.

I wonder why he feeds so much - any signs of teeth or does he get wind?

Thanks all.
I will check out the Sears stuff, I should probably re-read the relevant bits of The Attachment Parenting Book too.
He's not especially high needs, but he is used to me being there for him. I'd like him to gain distance at his own pace ideally, but I can't really risk him still being like this when we have a newborn.
DH and I did swap sides one night, it worked fairly well, I'll have to get him on side, he was not at all happy this morning after losing sleep.
I did consider putting him back in his cot after the first feed and not feeding him after, but I often don't register the first feed at all (I literally never recall having got him out of the cot) so I would need to find some way of waking up properly.

This is a tough one when your LO is so attached to the breast (literally!). I found Dr jay Gordon's website useful when I was doing the same thing (for the same reasons) drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

We now sleep with DH between DS and I and while he will still wake 1-2 times a night or more DH can settle him pretty quickly. Sometimes I sleep in the spare room to get a full night which is wonderful, as I'm now 22 weeks pregnant.

It started off with him demanding (and not taking no for an answer) milk at about 6am, then it stretched a bit, then DH did an experiment where instead of giving boobs he took him downstairs and gave him breakfast. That worked really well and he actually went back to bed for an hour or so.

I think that a combination of my milk dropping off with the pregnancy and some gentle persuasion has worked together. I also have no intention to day wean and that's working fine. It took a while though - a couple of months from starting to being at a point where we are finding things much easier - but there was steady progress (with the odd regression that we just went with that afterwards were clearly teething or illness so I didn't hold back at all with night feeds when it was obvious that he needed them). Because we could see progress it kept us going, and each tiny step made things better so we felt good about it all.

Incidentally I found that the soreness probably passed by around 20 weeks. It was really tough to start with, but I was encouraged to keep going and it is working out ok.

Incidentally I do have the benefit of a 110% supportive DH (who loves cosleeping as well), who will give up sleep for me if I need it despite the fact that he's working every day and will never, ever consider CIO.

I hire him out by the hour.

Seriously, this is a two person job. As you say, an on-side DH is pretty much a necessity, or certainly a major part of the deal.

Iggly, I haven't decided yet whether to put him in his own room, continue to cosleep on his dad's side, or put him in a cot/toddler bed in our room, with baby in a moses basket. I was going to follow his lead, we do have 6 months to go, and I figure a lot can change in that time. I just can't deal with working part-time, being pregnant, breastfeeding, and getting no sleep.

He has always fed a lot, he's a big lad, born on 50th centile, went off the top of the charts by 8 months, he's over 14kg now. His dad is 6'2" and heavily built, so I am not surprised, he's not particularly chubby, just tall and broad.

He's cutting some molars now, and he's just started walking, but he's feeding less than before, in the same pattern. He just seems to have hollow legs, he's just had 2 slices of toast, half a can of beans and a satsuma (with a beaker of juice) and he's at my knees begging for milk.

I work on a don't offer, and refuse where I can system, if I can distract him with a drink, snack or game I will, but he still seems to need a fair amount of milk.

Thanks organic, that's useful. I think I need to discuss it with DH when he isn't grumpy from lost sleep, he is usually very supportive.

Sounds like you have some strategies to work with, nanny. Obviously I'm not suggesting that my experience will be like yours, but just that it can work really :)

Also the main point I think I wanted to make was that small steps are still progressive steps so feeling good about each small thing, rather than being worried about how long it would take to completely change what was happening, felt like a nicer way of thinking of it, for us. Less stress!

Hi Nanny - I have literally weaned my own 16mo DS two weeks ago. Until a month ago, he had never slept more than three hours without a breastfeed at night and would scream till vomiting when his dad tried to settle him in the night. He also slept with us and I felt so dismal about my chances of ever weaning him (so I could start a series of medical stuff where I can't bf).

I was not prepared to do controlled crying or crying it out. My feeling was that if it was that awful for him, I'd rather continue.

So, the way it worked was this: DH and I decided we would go cold turkey from 11am till morning. DS would still get an 8pm and 11pm feed. He had no illnesses or teething - seemed a good time.

So my DH slept on the floor of DS' room, also lying down and cuddling him in his own (single) bed if necessary. If he wouldn't sleep, DH would read him books and so on until he was prepared to sleep.

The first night, DS woke at 1am and didn't go back to sleep. He was screaming but always in his dad's arms, so I knew he might be cross or upset but he wasn't scared or alone. The second night, He woke up at 2:45 and did not go back to sleep - was less pissed off though. Then the third night, he slept with a couple of quick wake ups. After that, he improved each night.

After about 10 days, I had to go to a work event and missed his 11pm feed. He didn't notice. So we dropped it.

After another week, we noticed that he wasn't falling asleep on the breast anymore at his bedtime feed. He was feeding then getting up again.

So we had a few days of crazy activity on holiday so DS was shattered (lots of post dinner running around) and then let his dad cuddle/sing him to sleep.

He asked once or twice over the next few days for a bf but I said it was "all gone" and gave him a cup of milk in the morning (he has refused any drinks in the night).

A few times he said "all gone?" to his dad in a hopeful way but didn't seem upset. And now goes to sleep with his dad instead of me until we have really bedded in the no-feeding message.

Overall though, it's been so so so much less traumatic than I thought it would be. A month ago, my friends were laughing at the idea of him stopping bf as he was such a devotee, but for the last 10 days he hasn't even asked for it.

Not sure if that is really advice or just something that worked for one baby, but thought I would let you know. Good luck!

"cold turkey from 11pm till morning" obviously...

Oh and just to add, when I told DS that bf was "all gone", he was perfectly ok about it. If he had been upset, I probably would have fed him. But instead I said "all gone" and then lots of kisses and "oh look, here is some milk in your big boy's cup" and he was fine. He kept nodding and saying "ok all gone" and then reaching for a book or some other toy. So I felt he was ready. Previously if I hadn't whipped out my boob in under two seconds, he would have gone crackers.

Ooo, can I join? I'm in the same position with 19 month old who wakes about 5 times a night to bf. I made some progress and for the last month he was going to sleep initially in cot being patted (but it made no difference to night time wakings?!) but 2 nights at ILs at Xmas and we are back to screaming and wanting to bf to sleep.

DH not terribly supportive and wants to leave him to cry although he did help move the 9pm waking to 11ish by going in instead of me about 3 months ago. But he has a stressful job and is awful with little sleep.

Ds can easily climb out of his cot so not sure how DH thinks we'd do CIO anyway. MIL helpfully told we yesterday that they just locked DH in the room at a similar age and he screamed to sleep and they moved him into bed later. ]

I don't want to wean completely, he doesn't have much dairy and he's my last dc . But I need to change how things are somehow.

Oh bugger, DH banging on about letting him scream again. It's very difficult when everyone in RL is telling me to do something against my instincts. DH says every normal person does CIO/CC. So do all grandparents. My friend paid for millpond and that is what they told her to do. So I must be wrong? Becoming too tired to stand firm! Off to bed.

weasle - I had to wean DS at 16mo for medical reasons and was not prepared to do any kind of CC/CIO. If you can do that, fine, but I can't.

And in fact while weaning DS did involve some crying, it was all "I'm exhausted and can't drop off" fury rather than distress. And he was being cuddled and sung to by his dad for the whole time.

He was such a boob monster/ bad sleeper that my mum offered to buy me a sleep clinic package too, but I expected they would just say to do some sort of crying so didn't want to do it. I decided that even though I'd been crap at getting him to sleep so far, I was still the person who knew best how my baby could adapt.

So if you are not happy with it, honestly, not everyone does CIO at all. But it does take your DH taking a big hit in terms of time and sleep if you try a similar route to us.

I know interfering relatives always know best and all, but this is a good thorough article about the dangers of CIO for ammunition, might be worth getting DH to read it www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out.

-Waves to all- Can I join? Another 18mth old DD who has taken to feeding all night again. DH and I were just discussing what to do. We think DH will take her all night tonight as she's started waking at 10pm and refusing to go back asleep without a feed, in our bed. Pain in the ass as DH and I were settling down to watch a film with a glass of wine last night, and I ended up scrambling to get into PJs and get teeth washed so I could take her. We thought we might be able to transfer her back to her own room but she kept waking all night so it wasn't really an option at any stage.

Welcome Trillian.
We had a good night last night actually, but I am not counting my chickens as I have no idea why. He was stirring at 11 when I went to bed, so I fed him then put him back in his cot. When he woke the first time in the night, I was so knackered I couldn't face feeding him sat up to stay awake, so I fed him laid down, and dozed off, and he didn't go back in his cot. I did push him away a bit though, so he wasn't sleeping right by the boobs, for a large portion of the night he was snuggled up against his dad rather than me. He woke a bit later and took some water and a rock, then after about 6 he fed, and a couple more times before I gave in and got up. So not awesome, but better than usual.

Hello ladies. Have just found this thread and I'm in exactly the same position. Ds2 is 1 today! :) and is waking every couple of hours to 'feed'.
Thing is I did all this with ds1 (now 6) you'd think I'd learn!
I have been working up to some sort of night weaning but keep taking the easy way out.
I was even starting to wonder about some sort of cc but THANKYOU futurenannyogg for the link as it reminded me why 6 years ago I insisted on doing it the way my heart told me to and why I'll be doing it the same way this time too.