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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

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Original poster

Milk not coming in... advice?

22 replies

Anabellesmumanddad · 28/12/2011 07:37

My friend had her first baby a week ago and her milk is not coming in. (I've had two babies and BFing was easy so I am at a loss of what to advise her with).

Quick history: Mostly easy pregnancy (some elevated blood pressure at the end), vaginal unassisted delivery (in hospital), baby would latch, but not feed for long and go to sleep. Everyone thought she was feeding fine until they realised she was losing weight.

Seen LC and MW frequently, are expressing tiny amounts (not sure if colostrum or not) and feeding with donated breast milk. Baby has gained a bit of weight.

Basically her big issue is now how to get her milk in. I can't remember the exact amounts but she is only getting small amounts from expressing.

Obviously she is also feeling stink about being on the ol' pump for so much time as well.

Any tips?

OP posts:

TanteRose · 28/12/2011 07:44

why is she expressing when the baby latches on fine - just keep the baby attached to the breast as much as possible (as long as nipples can stand it). Take a bath with him, lots of skin on skin. The pump will not be helping as it is obviously stressing her out and stress is not so good.

Put the baby to the breast 15 or 20 times a day (basically all the time!) and even if he/she is not feeding, the nuzzling and closeness will stimulate the body to make milk.

HTH
tell her to hang in there - I never really got breastfeeding established until a week after DD was born. There is still loads of time to get it right!

TanteRose · 28/12/2011 07:45

god sorry, skin-to-skin, not "on"

misdee · 28/12/2011 07:48

what you can get from expressing is no indicator of if you have lots of milk or not.

keep the baby at the breast, tell her to go to bed with a heap of books/dvd's/snacks/drinks etc, skin to skin and keep baby at the breast. babymoon.

LovesBloominChristmas · 28/12/2011 07:54

Agree with the others, milk is produced due to demand so she needs the baby on tge breast to get the body to produce it.

My advice, take tge bay to bed and stay there for a couple of days. She needs to relax and stop stressing, tge baby needs skin to skin and lots of boob access

Josieeeee · 28/12/2011 08:00

Get her iron levels checked- anaemia can slow down/stop milk supply x x

Original poster

Anabellesmumanddad · 28/12/2011 08:05

Thanks all. I think the baby is really sleepy/lazy so won't try for milk for long before she drops off to sleep. I'll going over tomorrow to give her a back massage so will suss out how much skin-on-skin they are getting...
She says baby will suck finger ok, so seems to have a suck reflex but doesn't seem interested in her breast...

OP posts:

fourbears · 28/12/2011 08:46

My milk never did come in. It just doesn't for some people and a midwife told me it's more common with a first baby. (Mind you, I never had much milk even after my second. Must be the way I'm made.) I kept trying for a week but even the breastfeeding counsellor said I'd have to bottlefeed. I think it's really sad that mums and babies have to suffer and keep trying for an ideal which doesn't happen for everyone. If she was my friend, I'd be suggesting bottlefeeding. It's great she's got access to donated breast milk.

LovesBloominChristmas · 28/12/2011 12:32

I think it's really sad that mums and babies have to suffer and keep trying for an ideal which doesn't happen for everyone. If she was my friend, I'd be suggesting bottlefeeding.

What an offensive suggestion. She is making her baby suffer trying for an ideal? I would say it's sad to assume that this person doesn't know her own mind and is only trying to bf to fulfill some sort of mothering pride.

LinusVanPelt · 28/12/2011 12:45

There is nothing at all offensive about fourbears' post. She is simply offering a different, and completely valid, perspective.

Gigondas · 28/12/2011 13:05

Agree with Linus- four bears was making a valid comment about feeding another way when it is clear that there are issues.

organiccarrotcake · 28/12/2011 13:35

Stop arguing about the merits or otherwise of a single post and let's go back to looking at the OP's needs.

OP, your friend is hopefully getting decent help. Is the LC a qualified IBCLC? Where is she getting donor milk from? (It's usual to be allowed it for a baby that's not pre-term or sick so I'm wondering what else might be going on).

organiccarrotcake · 28/12/2011 13:39

It is NOT clear that there are issues. We are NOT in a position to judge what's going on and we are NOT in a position to advise the OP's friend to bottle feed. We can not judge whether she's wanting to continue and desperately wants positive support and ideas, or is waiting for someone to give her "permission" to switch to formula.

A mother's milk doesn't "just" not come in unless there are underlying medical reasons. It is not at all useful to say that one person's experience means that someone else is in the same position and should therefore be advised to do X or Y.

The OP has asked for BFing support. Can we stick to that, please.

OhdearNigel · 28/12/2011 13:49

Feeding with donated breastmilk and expressing isn't going to help the situation - as others have said she needs to get baby suckling as much as possible. You talk about her being "on the pump all the time" - if she exchanges the pump for the baby she will hopefully start to pick up.

It is normal for babies to lose weight in their first week - I think about 10% is deemed acceptable.

organiccarrotcake · 28/12/2011 13:57

Feeding with donated milk and expressing might be the best thing or it could be interferring with the process of getting baby to feed directly. We can't tell - and I'm worried that this may confuse the OP.

I would expect that if the mother is being offered donor milk, she's in a hospital where the BFing support is better than average and that there's a good reason for it.

tiktok · 28/12/2011 13:59

Well said, occ.

There are several reasons why a mother's milk may appear slow to come in - and sometimes, the truth is that it really isn't slow to come in, it just appears that way.

Retained placenta is one reason - even a small piece of placenta can affect early bf.

Early weight loss is normal. Babies normally stop losing weight by about day 5 - but they may take a while to regain it.

Effective bf = effective removal of milk = effective production.

Midwives should be able to check all that is happening and support the mum to do what she needs to do to encourage it all.

Original poster

Anabellesmumanddad · 29/12/2011 09:19

Thanks all. I popped around to her place and gave her a bit of a backrub. She thinks things are going better but unfortunately still no milk (after 20 min expressing only got about 20mls). Basically always skin to skin when they can, but need to keep baby really warm because she is so little.
Hopefully with time the milk with come, but they will use formula if it won't.

Baby is still super sleepy and gives up sucking after about three minutes. But three minutes is apparently an improvement, so things are looking up. In the meantime they need to get food into their baby so are using donated breastmilk. She is getting if from friends and family btw. (and yes, she is aware of the risks and issues associated with it)

I agree with fourbears that there can be pressure to be as natural as possible and the pressure to bf is not so subtle. I had a emergency C-section with my first and for ages felt like I had done something wrong... we can be quite hard on our selves, ey!

I've relayed your messages and advice to her so thanks again to you all.

OP posts:

tiktok · 29/12/2011 10:30

Skin to skin is the best way for a small baby to regulate her temp and keep warm - skin to skin does not mean there is no outer covering on mother and baby. Keeping the baby warm does not conflict at all with skin to skin...not sure why you indicated this would mean less skin to skin, anabellesmumanddad??

I think there is a real concern with this situation, and a baby who is still super sleepy at 8 days and 'gives up' sucking so quickly is worrying.

The baby should be weeing lots and pooing several times a day....the donated breastmilk should be sufficient for this to happen and for her to start gaining weight. Are the midwives checking this is happening?

It's great you are able to support her. I think she needs some midwifery input fairly urgently as well.

kernowmissvyghen · 29/12/2011 10:31

Your friend has probably already been told this, but I found dabbing cold water around the baby's face and ears with cotton wool each time he/she starts to doze off during a feed helps to keep them alert enough to keep sucking. And feed/ snuggle in bed all the time, literally. She might get 10 mins off every 2 or 3 hours to go to the loo etc but no more. It is hard going, but will be worth it if she can get breastfeeding going.

Original poster

Anabellesmumanddad · 29/12/2011 19:28

I didn't mean to imply they are substituting warm clothes for skin to skin. According to mum, they are skin to skin all the time, unless there is company and even then they probably are.
They are seeing lactation consultants and yesterday went to a lactation clinic. Regular input from MW is also happening.
I think they are doing everything pretty much right. (wet cloths to help wake up baby). Hopefully thing will start to come right....

OP posts:

bigmommamom · 29/12/2011 20:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

abigboydidit · 29/12/2011 21:27

My milk was delayed due to ECS but came in on day 7 I think. Till then we just spent pretty much the whole time with him on my bare chest, stripped to his nappy. Agree with previous poster about tips to keep them awake while feeding. For me, tickling his feet and blowing gently on his head worked. I never had the feeling of engorgement when milk did arrive and didn't even attempt to express for at least a month as I never seemed to have a long enough gap between feeds or the wherewithal to operate a steriliser or pump!

There are great experts on here to advise though, just sharing my very limited experience.

perceptionreality · 29/12/2011 21:37

I've had three children - the first two were breast fed exclusively and they were perfect textbook feeders. With dd3 it was an entirely different story - this baby did the same as your friend's baby - sucked for about 1 minute and then went to sleep! I ended up having to express to get anything into her. The milk was there but getting her to take it out of the breast was very difficult and we did end up bottle feeding after about 6 weeks.

I don't think she should give up yet but sometimes even when you're an experienced breastfeeder you can then go on to have a child who is not so straightforward. It's nobody's fault!

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